Nicholas is speaking about parts on the pump itself, shown here:

http://www.fluidotech.com/Contents/Documents/PO%20BR%20SPARE%20PARTS%200409%20Ed.pdf

How did you connect the machine (the pump) to a water source? What does the pressure gage indicate now? I would suggest you locate and become "best friends" with your local Elektra dealer.

From Procon exploded view; also see Adjusting espresso machine's rotary pump brew pressure?

above is a procon rotary pump diagram... the Elektra more likely has a Fluid-O-Tech pump, but it will look fairly similar. You shouldn't have a strainer, either, so that shouldn't cause any confusion.I was referring to the relief valve assembly that you see coming out the side of the pump on the far right above. Yours will look different (No acorn nut; the adjustment screw will stick out and have a lock nut on it).

Edit: sorry for the semi-repost, didn't see Eric's response when I posted. I'll go ahead and leave the marginal added info, though.

erics wrote:How did you connect the machine (the pump) to a water source? What does the pressure gage indicate now? I would suggest you locate and become "best friends" with your local Elektra dealer.

I connected it via a tub full of water suspended above the machine. my machine is currently in pieces as ive just finished the descale so the gauge is not connected (but still reads around 16 bar). i spoke to elektra and my 'local' Elektra dealer is in south wales - i love in london. it may be worth a chat on the phone with them.

i see the relief valve you are reffering to now, is this OK to remove? it wont have a factory set value i.e. the pressure relief valve ontop of the boiler?

Thnaks

Damien

Yes, it's fine to remove the valve on the pump (What do you mean by on top of the boiler?). It's unlikely that it has a factory-set value, but even if it did, the relief valve sets pressure as a function of inlet pressure, i.e. it will deliver different max pressure if you are running it at ~0 psi inlet pressure with a bucket vs. 45-50 psi or so from a normal water line.

My point is, the pressure relief valve is something that you will have to set later on with a good pressure gauge, either fixing/replacing the onboard gauge or building/acquiring a portafilter pressure gauge, no matter whether you monkey with it now or not. So, best to open it up and make sure it's clean. Be careful when you take it apart, it's spring-loaded.

Edit: if you mean the boiler safety relief valve on top of the boiler, that has nothing to do with pump pressure. The boiler pressure is set by filling up the boiler with water to a certain level (set by the level probe) with no pressure (at least not much), and then boiling that water until the boiler pressurizes. e.g., boiler pressure of around 0.8 bar is in the 245F range.

Again that's totally separate from line pressure and pump pressure, and is controlled by the pressurestat. There is a pressure relief valve for the water line, though. It's the line that goes out the side of the bottom of the heat exchanger and out to the drain tray. That valve should be set around 11-13 bars, and is for relieving the expansion pressure from when cold water in the HX is brought to a boil. It may drip from time to time.

shadowfax wrote:the pressure relief valve is something that you will have to set later on with a good pressure gauge, either fixing/replacing the onboard gauge or building/acquiring a portafilter pressure gauge, no matter whether you monkey with it now or not.

Okay, thanks, i wasn't expecting/hadn't thought that far ahead to have to do that, something to keep in mind!

shadowfax wrote:if you mean the boiler safety relief valve on top of the boiler

yes, that was what i was reffering to, but only in the context of the factory settings for safety valves (given the infirmation from Stefano here)

ok, so ill pop her off and see what we have!

Hello again everyone. Well after over a week I'm almost scale free and I'm at the point of putting her back together and I am seeking advice on what I should be replacing or any specific things I should be doing as I do so.

1) I know that I need a drip tray, hoses, pressure relief safety valve (on top of the boiler) and programming key. With regards to the safety valve is there any special way of attaching this without damaging the drain cup?

2) should I replace the vacuum break valve?

3) should I replace every gasket in the machine? Would this be a waste of money. I few of them are a little stiff, would it be best to replace them all to be on the safe side?

4) should I replace the washers that go between the pressure relief valve, vacuum break valve, water level probe and the boiler? I know Mark had some problems with these not being the correct size.

5) is my element the correct one for the machine? It's the correct length and fits in and attaches fine ect. but there are only 4 element terminals, whereas Marks, along with 2 different sets of schematics I have seen, all have 6.



Having 6 terminals means it is possible to run on 2/3 power. This would have allowed me to run the machine using a normal 13A UK plug. However, I would imagine that running a 9L boiler on half power wouldn't be realistic?

6) with regards to the power (this may apply to UK only) , is it possible to run this 16A machine through a UK socket? I'm not sure is my plugs are 15A or 30A. There are both in the fuse box. There are two 30A fuses (one marked "plugs"), and we don't have an electric oven. I'm in a rented flat so I cannot install a dedicated 16A supply.....unless I run wires from the fuse box to the kitchen, probably not a good idea!

7) For use on the pipe threads would Teflon tape / grease thread be recommended? What is the difference between Teflon tape and PTFE? I guess it would be due to the temperatures that Teflon is recommended?

8 ) polishing the case. I don't believe I could physically hold up the case to a buffing wheel long enough to polish it. What I do have though, is a 450W orbital sander (4000-11000 rpm) with 125mm and 150mm disc sizes - would this be good enough to do the job? If so what grit should I be starting with? I believe I should be going up to 2000-3000 to get that mirror finish. Should I use a metal polish and if so which one(s)? And at which grit stage? (I requested 5 quotes from the local area metal finishers and got 0 replies, I guess it's just too small a job for these particular companies)

9) water softening. I have really enjoyed restoring this machine and thought it was something I would want to do again. So at the weekend I picked up an Astoria AEP/2 machine, an Aristarco grinder, a large knock box and a DVA LT8 water softener (the type you re-charge with salt) for £280. The water softener looks almost new, is this suitable for this machine? Would I require any other pressure regulators - the feed comes through a tap from the main water supply, and there are in-line taps, but not a dedicated pressure regulator?

10) as mentioned in an earlier post HEREmy pressure gauge reads ~ 16 bar for the pump pressure when disconnected / the machine is off. Is this normal or is the gauge broken?


11) Anything else I should be changing / doing? E.g Filters.

Thanks for all the continued help.

Damien.

My selected answers/advice:

2) should I replace the vacuum break valve?

Yes.

3) should I replace every gasket in the machine? Would this be a waste of money. I few of them are a little stiff, would it be best to replace them all to be on the safe side?

Yes. Make sure you get the newer teflon heating element gasket.

4) should I replace the washers that go between the pressure relief valve, vacuum break valve, water level probe and the boiler? I know Mark had some problems with these not being the correct size.

Yes, it's a good idea. It's preferable that you request the smallest (thinnest) copper gaskets they have available for whatever size you need. I sourced my parts from Stefano as well, and got a few gaskets that fit and some that didn't do so well. It's probably not the end of the world to reuse old copper gaskets, though.

5) is my element the correct one for the machine? It's the correct length and fits in and attaches fine ect. but there are only 4 element terminals, whereas Marks, along with 2 different sets of schematics I have seen, all have 6.

I assume they just use a bigger element for the 2 group. I can't imagine that you've got the wrong element. You probably won't have a good time running it at 50% power--heatup and recovery will probably be awful. On the other hand, after it does heat up, there's probably nothing you could do short of hosting a dinner party of big latté drinkers that would make the recovery issue a problem. I can turn my machine off and steam a drink or two... 9L is really really big, eh?

6) with regards to the power (this may apply to UK only) , is it possible to run this 16A machine through a UK socket? I'm not sure is my plugs are 15A or 30A. There are both in the fuse box. There are two 30A fuses (one marked "plugs"), and we don't have an electric oven. I'm in a rented flat so I cannot install a dedicated 16A supply.....unless I run wires from the fuse box to the kitchen, probably not a good idea!

cutting the power in half may be your only option in your current setup. the 30A fuse is likely intended for running many things at once. You might be able to run the machine off of a plug that is connected to the 30A fuse, but it's probably not a good idea, and you'll have to be aware of all the other plugs running on that fuse, and what you have connected to them while the machine's running.

7) For use on the pipe threads would Teflon tape / grease thread be recommended? What is the difference between Teflon tape and PTFE? I guess it would be due to the temperatures that Teflon is recommended?

You'll want to identify the connections that seal via compression and those that seal against pipes. All of the boiler connections will likely be compression fittings, and you shouldn't need any PTFE or anything like that.

9) ... a DVA LT8 water softener (the type you re-charge with salt) for £280. The water softener looks almost new, is this suitable for this machine? Would I require any other pressure regulators - the feed comes through a tap from the main water supply, and there are in-line taps, but not a dedicated pressure regulator?

You will need to find out what your line pressure is. In the best case, it's rather high (3-4 bars) so that you can regulate it down to 2 bars. The reason you want to do this is that regulating the pressure below what line pressure is normally allows you to maintain more consistent pressure (whereas line pressure may vary). It's generally best to put the regulator after your filters, because those usually benefit from higher pressure. The DVA softener is the one that I use for my Elektra (got mine for free... don't think I would buy one if it weren't), and it's perfectly fine in most cases. If your water is super-hard, you may want something that's not bleeding salt back into the water to replace the calcium etc., and you'll instead want a solution such as either an in-line RO setup (with remineralization via controlled mixing of filtered tap water) or a flojet pump fed by bottled water whose TDS/hardness you have verified when selecting it.

10) as mentioned in an earlier post HEREmy pressure gauge reads ~ 16 bar for the pump pressure when disconnected / the machine is off. Is this normal or is the gauge broken?

It's broken. You need to repair/replace it, or find some other way to check your pump pressure, such as a portafilter pressure gauge.


11) Anything else I should be changing / doing? E.g Filters.

I can't recall if you've been cautioned, but the pressurestat is a potential weak point in an old machine. They're usually quite reliable, but the Sirai that Elektra uses has some type of plastic diaphragm that stiffens over time and increases the boiler pressure deadband. Mine was 0.5 bar (should be about 0.2 bar when new) before I changed to a PID. You could replace the stat, even with a much cheaper one if you wish.

Filters--definitely put at the very least a sediment filter in front of the machine. It's not worth the risk of having scale in your pipes break off and jam themselves in your pump/solenoid valves. Now, an RO system will give you this automatically, as will any carbon filter you choose that you may want for all the nasty things they take out. Remember (if you don't have the softener manual) to install the carbon filter AFTER the softener, because the softener likes to have mildly chlorinated water to prevent itself from getting bacterial buildup.

Looking really good. (I've been away in Florida for the last couple of weeks with the family at Discovery Cove, Sea World, Disney World and the Tampa area beach).

Mark

I agree with Nicholas on his answers, but I'll answer some in my own way too.

DDTTAA wrote:Hello again everyone. Well after over a week I'm almost scale free and I'm at the point of putting her back together and I am seeking advice on what I should be replacing or any specific things I should be doing as I do so.

1) I know that I need a drip tray, hoses, pressure relief safety valve (on top of the boiler) and programming key. With regards to the safety valve is there any special way of attaching this without damaging the drain cup?

Tray - Might be cheaper building rather than replacing if you know a metal worker.

You could skip the programming key and just short (or open) the terminals (I can't remember which way it goes) and do the programming. I haven't changed mine since the day I originally programmed it. I got the volume of the one button I use set and that was it. You may not even need it since the defaults are likely within range of what you want.

I just screwed the safety valve into the drain cup with some Teflon tape (don't over tighten).

DDTTAA wrote:2) should I replace the vacuum break valve?

Probably, I was lucky and was given a replacement piece of rubber (viton?).

DDTTAA wrote:3) should I replace every gasket in the machine? Would this be a waste of money. I few of them are a little stiff, would it be best to replace them all to be on the safe side?

Replace them all, will luck you will never be tearing the machine down to this level again. A whole lot easier now. Teflon (instead of the original paper gasket) on the heater element has worked out well for me.

DDTTAA wrote:4) should I replace the washers that go between the pressure relief valve, vacuum break valve, water level probe and the boiler? I know Mark had some problems with these not being the correct size.

You're likely to find European sizes a bit easier than us US based people. Go down to a car repair place and compare the sizes of the copper washers with the Elektra ones. Way better than re-annealing them and hoping for the best.

DDTTAA wrote:5) is my element the correct one for the machine? It's the correct length and fits in and attaches fine ect. but there are only 4 element terminals, whereas Marks, along with 2 different sets of schematics I have seen, all have 6.

You have a European dual head, likely using a lot more power to get up to temp. However once it gets there, you don't need full power unless you are hosting a heck of a party.

DDTTAA wrote:Having 6 terminals means it is possible to run on 2/3 power. This would have allowed me to run the machine using a normal 13A UK plug. However, I would imagine that running a 9L boiler on half power wouldn't be realistic?

I would bet it would work fine once at temperature. I can steam a lot of milk while unplugged once at temp and I only have the tiny 5 liter boiler.

DDTTAA wrote:6) with regards to the power (this may apply to UK only) , is it possible to run this 16A machine through a UK socket? I'm not sure is my plugs are 15A or 30A. There are both in the fuse box. There are two 30A fuses (one marked "plugs"), and we don't have an electric oven. I'm in a rented flat so I cannot install a dedicated 16A supply.....unless I run wires from the fuse box to the kitchen, probably not a good idea!

No idea about European/UK sockets.

DDTTAA wrote:8 ) polishing the case. I don't believe I could physically hold up the case to a buffing wheel long enough to polish it. What I do have though, is a 450W orbital sander (4000-11000 rpm) with 125mm and 150mm disc sizes - would this be good enough to do the job? If so what grit should I be starting with? I believe I should be going up to 2000-3000 to get that mirror finish. Should I use a metal polish and if so which one(s)? And at which grit stage? (I requested 5 quotes from the local area metal finishers and got 0 replies, I guess it's just too small a job for these particular companies)

No idea, but since you have it, give it a shot and tell us. Start with the final polishing stage and see if you like it. I bet you'll be impressed. If you start too rough, be ready for a lot of polishing.

DDTTAA wrote:9) water softening. I have really enjoyed restoring this machine and thought it was something I would want to do again. So at the weekend I picked up an Astoria AEP/2 machine, an Aristarco grinder, a large knock box and a DVA LT8 water softener (the type you re-charge with salt) for £280. The water softener looks almost new, is this suitable for this machine? Would I require any other pressure regulators - the feed comes through a tap from the main water supply, and there are in-line taps, but not a dedicated pressure regulator?

Put a regulator after the water softener and you are set. I used John Guest fitting everywhere and love them.

DDTTAA wrote:10) as mentioned in an earlier post HEREmy pressure gauge reads ~ 16 bar for the pump pressure when disconnected / the machine is off. Is this normal or is the gauge broken?

Broken. I reset my old Anita pressure gauge by moving the needle. These are not precision instruments anyway, if you could borrow, build a group head pressure gauge you could at least know if it works.

DDTTAA wrote:11) Anything else I should be changing / doing? E.g Filters.

Probably the pressure stat. There are rebuild kits, but I got my replacement off eBay at a reasonable price.

Wooden handles are a nice addition, you might want to do that after it all works.

DDTTAA wrote:Thanks for all the continued help.

Damien.

You are welcome, keep up the great work.

Mark

Thanks Mark and Nicholas for the great answers again. I may just go with the key as I'm unsure about the shorting business and for £5 if I'm buying a number of items it may just be worth it. For the tray, my brother in law to be is actually a welder so he said he would be able to make it if I gave him a diagram to go by. But I don't know how it fits into the machine. Does it simply rest on the electrics cover? Does it taper to the right to allow for the water flow? Does the drip tray grid sit on top of the drip tray itself or fit in around it?

New valves and gaskets (Teflon for the element) it is and we'll see what we get with the washers.

Yes 9L is really big! I'm still getting my head around it. I might start it off with half power and start it on a very generous timer, however ill work on this over the next week or so, I'll try some DIY forums.

shadowfax wrote:You'll want to identify the connections that seal via compression and those that seal against pipes. All of the boiler connections will likely be compression fittings

"You'll want to identify the connections that seal via compression and those that seal against pipes"

By this do you mean the connections that go into the boiler which have a cone-ish shaped pipe end?

shadowfax wrote:The DVA softener is the one that I use for my Elektra (got mine for free... don't think I would buy one if it weren't)

Is this is because it's not that good or you simply wouldn't use one at all? Are the test strips the best method for testing water hardness? I can try and do this tomorrow and then take it from there.

I took the cover off of the pressure gauge and couldn't see anything clearly wrong with it other than it reads what it does. The needle can be moved by moving the internal connections in both directions. I will probably replace it, even if only for aesthetics and a PF pressure gauge for accuracy.

Some inline filters and the pressure stat also then. I am looking into Eric's thermometer adaptor. However I'm still getting my head round how to use it and the options available. Would getting this by-pass the need for the pressure stat or is it completely different (tomorrow is the day I'm going to read through all the posts on this). Would this be suitable for this machine?

I'll try the polishing on the inside of the case and see how that goes. Are all the front plates, including the plates where the electrical sit, stainless or are some of them just chrome plated?

How do you separate the steam want from the tip? And how do you disassemble the components of the hot water tip, because I don't see how I'm able to get a grip on it to unscrew it.

Are the two gaskets in the group head simply supposed to pop out? The ones in mine seem almost glued in. I didn't want to go digging around there with a knife to pry them out - always looks simpler on the schematics!

Thanks

Damien.