Hi

On my ECM Giotto Half Moon late 2006 heating started to be slower than usual, it used to be 20 min or so for full pressure to be achieved and lately it started to be an hour or more. I thought it may be related to scale build up (or at least I hoped that to be the case). I did a full descale on Friday. It started easy and then tripped GFCI outlet. Machine was clean based on the color of the solution and I am feeding it with filtered water. I had to fully disassemble it, traced all of the wiring and troubleshoot it to the heating element (I am very comfortable with electronics with Electrical Engineering background). What I found is electrical element is having about 100Kohm resistance between leads and the ground. I put it on the power strip to the non GFCI outlet and went through couple of heating cycles. It so happen that machine is attached through TripLite high end power noise reducing strip during operation (I had an issue with older grinder disrupting TV on the same power line). Machine is working but I know that element need to be replaced ASAP. I guess I need to remove one copper line in order to get access to the element with the tools.

Any suggestions from the group on best place to get the element, and are there any special tools to remove it or other suggestions. It looks like I have some sort of paste between element and the boiler. Do I need a gasket only or there is some sort of paste on the threads there as well? Any other words of wisdom from the people who did it? Any other improvements or changes that I can do while I am there. I did beautify all of the wiring with zip ties and such.

Any words of wisdom? Did anybody do i?

I worked on a machine once that had 2 heating elements and one of them would trip the GFI but the other was OK, After letting it stay hot for a while it stopped tripping the GFI. I guess it had gotten wet on the outside and the heat dried it out. Just make sure the outside is completely clean and dry also.

Ira

I've never replaced mine, but I do see that 1st line appears to have the part - http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Rocket ... 1p7649.htm
You need a gasket, and I think most vendors include a teflon gasket with the element, so you might check with them about that.

As ira pointed out, moisture in the element terminal can cause a short to ground. Sometimes that can be fixed by removing the element and baking it for a few hours in a ~350F oven.

It looks identical to the one I replaced on my QM Alexia last month. A 30mm socket on a electric or air powered impact driver takes it out in a second. Be careful if the boiler is full of water. I had quite a flood.
I used a hose to flush out the tiny bit of scale in the tank and then used the same impact driver to install the new heater. Clean the gasket sealing surfaces with a rag. Measure the ohms, leg to leg, and to ground. That will give you a reference point for the future. Mine was a 1400 watt heater and about 9 ohms leg to leg, 0 to ground. I used a new teflon gasket but I think the old one would have worked. It didn't take much effort to install it and no leaks after a month.
The concept is that if you use a long handled wrench on the socket, you'll end up turning the tank as well. There's no way to hold my tank and it'll just spin until the copper tubes are kinked. The power tool is great. It's that sudden impact that you want to overcome the friction. Beating a wrench handle with a 2x4 will work, but is less graceful.

D.

Thank you. My initial issue and why I even started with descaling is that all of a sudden it takes 2 - 3 time as long to bring machine up to temperature that it used to be before. When it started to trip outlet I checked for any water and started to disconnect all of the parts on the hot line i.e. controller, pump, neon light and so on. Element was dry on outside so no chances of water on the connector being the culprit. I measured about 100Kohm between leads and a ground.
I also attached it to the non GFCI outlet and caked it for a little while. So unless relay has increased in resistance (it would burn out almost immediately if that was the case) I suspect that I have some flat with element itself. I did find it today at Seattle Coffee shop. Ordered it and a teflon gasket.
I did see some sort of putty oozing out of thread, not sure what kind paste is that. Would you put teflon on the thread? or just screw it bare metal to the boiler? That is the good thought about torque, I don't gave any pneumatic or electrical tools that would take that kind of socket nor do I have that big of a socket, I am planning to use range and try to hold boiler somehow, need to think about it.

I am planning to use range and try to hold boiler somehow, need to think about it.

The easiest (and best) way to remove a heating element is with an adjustable impact wrench either electric or pneumatic. The electric will be the typical choice of home barista's. Renting one, along with the proper sockets, should be fairly easy.

Just lay the Giotto on its left side with the panels removed and have at it.

Thank you for he advice. Do you know what size the nut on the heating element? I guess I need to rent it in Auto Zone.

I should because I have removed several. I believe it is 1-1/2" but you need to watch out for the male spades on the heating element that they don't interfere with removal.

D'Laine wrote:Beating a wrench handle with a 2x4 will work, but is less graceful.

Not to say that I haven't done exactly the same thing, but it's also a bad way to accomplish the task. Much of the force will be applied out of the plane of rotation of the joint you want to separate, and this can bend, distort or break other pieces in the assembly (e.g. tubing, mounts etc) before it loosens the target joint. The beauty of an impact wrench is that it applies rotary torque, so almost all of the force is being put to the task of unscrewing the threads (at least until something else yields, if the threads are overtorqued or seized). Also, the pulsed force of an impact wrench has a faster rise time and is much briefer than a blow from a pipe or stud, so it's less sustained.

There are manual impact wrenches that are driven by a blow on the end - I have a nice one that's been useful for specialized work like motorcycle case screws. But the axial blow is potentially damaging if applied to mechanical assemblies like the innards of an espresso machine. You can buy a 1/2" electric impact wrench form Harbor Freight and similar places with a rated max torque of >200 ft-lbs for under $50, which will pay for itself in short order compared to a few rentals. Beware of the really cheap ones, as they only reach their rated power during the final meltdown. Buy good sockets one at a time and you'll have a great set within a few years. Bargain socket sets are both poorly sized and weak, and they often strip worn or difficult fittings because they're too loose. Buy one good one at a time and you'll have a full set within a few years that will give you a lifetime of service and joy.