Rancilio Silvia V3 w/PID at 5280 elevation

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jasonbach
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#1: Post by jasonbach »

Hello all,

Just bought my first espresso machine and am wasting shots all over the place in an attempt to dial in all the variables. I have several questions, but will list them in separate topics after searching for answers first of course. here, I wanted to ask about what the correct SV for the PID should be at my location in Denver @ 5280 feet. I've read of the Denver Effect and unclear if thats correct advice or not. Currently my PID is set to the following variables:
Set Value: 221
Pre-Infusion: 1.2
Wait Time: 2.5
Brew Time: 25

I dialed in these variables based on Seattle Coffee Gear's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mk7S-AcI2M

Knowing that water boils at 202.4F at 5280 feet, do I need to make any adjustments to these variables specifically in relation to my elevation? Anyone here use this setup in Denver? FYI, I measured the water temp when I flush the grouphead and it comes out at about 183F, seems pretty low? But I guess its actually higher than that when there's a puck present due to pressure.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Jason

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TheJavaCup77
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#2: Post by TheJavaCup77 »

Closed boilers are NOT affected by surrounding pressure differences at different altitudes.
It could be as complex or as simple as you want. It's the choice of the barista.

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homeburrero
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#3: Post by homeburrero replying to TheJavaCup77 »

It's important to point out that closed boilers controlled by pressurestat certainly are affected by the pressure differences at altitude, as are pressure gauges.

For a PID controlled closed boiler like that Silvia, 221F is 221F whether in Denver or at sea level. If you're brewing at a high temp, then the altitude might have some affect because the water exiting the puck might be boiling as it comes out. Some people have advocated sticking with coffees that prefer cooler brew temps when brewing at altitude.

But I've never used a Silvia, at sea level or at altitude. Hopefully there are people on the forum who have and will weigh in on that.
Pat
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jasonbach (original poster)
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#4: Post by jasonbach (original poster) »

ah, thanks for the info, didn't know that about the boiler. So should I lower my temp then down to the recommended 195°F to 205°F range I guess? Why is SCG brewing at such high temps then?

J

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homeburrero
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#5: Post by homeburrero »

jasonbach wrote:So should I lower my temp then down to the recommended 195°F to 205°F range I guess? Why is SCG brewing at such high temps then?
No. That temp is the surface of your boiler, and to get an appx. 200F shot your boiler needs to be up in the 225F neighborhood. See Rancilio Silvia Performance with/without PID

Since you have a PID, when you dial in a coffee you can try it a few degrees higher, and a few degrees lower than you usual temp, then decide by taste what you prefer.
Pat
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TheJavaCup77
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#6: Post by TheJavaCup77 »

Everything Homeburrero said is true...

But the Silvia boilers are controlled by a bimetallic thermostat or a PID :|

Not a pressurestat..

But the info is quite relatable to the difficulty of most HX owners at an altitude.. due to the atmospheric pressure affecting the boiling point of water.. the flush would be a little bit more complicated than usual... IMHO.. :twisted:

Thanks Homeburrero... and i stand corrected :o
It could be as complex or as simple as you want. It's the choice of the barista.

jonr
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#7: Post by jonr »

the water exiting the puck might be boiling as it comes out
Starting at around 7000 ft, although the grounds cool the water flowing through them so somewhat higher. A pressurized basket, modified for only a .5 bar drop might be a good idea for people above 8000 ft.

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homeburrero
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#8: Post by homeburrero »

I agree, you would need to be brewing at a higher than standard temp to get an exit temp of 203F (95C) that would boil in Denver. To get boiling at an exit temp of 194F (90C), which is on the high side of typical temps, you would need to be up at around 9000 ft. (Exit temps run about ~ 5C lower than Scace temps.)

This post from nearly 10 years back by Jim Schulman is concise and informative related to this topic:
Whatever happened to low brew temperatures?
Jim's post also provides a rational interpretation of David Schomer's "Denver Effect" experience.
Pat
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