Rancilio Silvia problem - steam comes out of OPV hose when steaming milk?

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oliver
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#1: Post by oliver »

Hi,

I have a problem with my all new Silvia machine.

Once I first had it set up and plugged in, my pulls produced espressos of ~6 ounces in about ~22s which is way too fast. I don't have much experience with espresso machines from before, so I spent some time reading up on various forums and blogs. A lot of people point out that the quality of the coffee and grind settings as a big deal, so I went and bought better coffee (locally roasted), which made some difference (slightly less water), but the problem remained.

I continued the search and decided to look into the OPV setting. After having loosening it a lot (several turns), I'm now able to produce espressos of the correct volume. But now a new problem have appeared.

When using the steaming function, steam comes out of the OPV hose. This happens after a while when the tank starts getting warm enough to produce steam.

If I tighten the OPV, the steaming issue disappears, but then again the pulls produces too much water. I'm attaching an image of the OPV setting which allows me to produce the right amount of espresso, but causes the steamer to steam out of the OPV hose.

What can I try next? I appreciate any help I can get!


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Randy G.
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#2: Post by Randy G. »

What grinder are you using?
New machine, new user, and you are making adjustments to the factory settings? Not a good thing at all.
But now that you have changed the adjustment of the OPV you will have to get a gauge to properly adjust it.
On my website www.EspressoMyEspresso.com, check out this article: 12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME.
Invite someone over who knows what they are doing to help you. Making espresso is not like boiling water. It is an art that requires precision and control of the variables. You are adjusting variables with no data or experience.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

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HB
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#3: Post by HB »

oliver wrote:After having loosening it a lot (several turns), I'm now able to produce espressos of the correct volume. But now a new problem have appeared. When using the steaming function, steam comes out of the OPV hose. This happens after a while when the tank starts getting warm enough to produce steam.
My guess is that you have stale coffee, inadequate grinder, or both. Your espressos ran fast, so you lowered the brew pressure... so low that the OPV no longer fulfills its role as an expansion valve. To get the brew setting back to a reasonable range, consider the "runoff" method discussed in How do I check brew pressure without a gauge?
erics wrote:

Method 1 - Insert a blind basket in Silvia, start the pump, and measure the flow in the OPV line going back to the tank. This is the line without the bevel cut on the end. Measure the amount of time it takes a Pyrex cup to go from, say, the 4 ounce mark to the 8 ounce mark and convert this to ml per minute. Use the attached image and draw a vertical line upwards from your measured flow to the solid line in the drawing. This drawing was taken from the Ulka website and while there is no "official" explanation for the dashed lines above and below the solid one, I assume it to indicate production tolerance. The Ulka pump in Silvia is rated for a duty cycle of 1 minute on/1 minute off. Going from the 4 ounce mark to the 8 ounce mark should take a little over one minute and while I would foresee no problem in doing this, you may want to cut the measuring delta down to stay within their published duty cycle. The pressure you arrive at via this method is approximately 1.0 bar greater than actual brew pressure (when pulling a 2 ounce shot in 25 seconds). Total cost - zero.
Or for more accurate measurement, build your own portafilter with pressure gauge (search will net you many suggestions like Building a Portafilter Pressure Gauge from the FAQ).
Dan Kehn

oliver (original poster)
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#4: Post by oliver (original poster) »

Randy G. wrote:What grinder are you using?
New machine, new user, and you are making adjustments to the factory settings? Not a good thing at all.
But now that you have changed the adjustment of the OPV you will have to get a gauge to properly adjust it.
On my website www.EspressoMyEspresso.com, check out this article: 12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME.
Invite someone over who knows what they are doing to help you. Making espresso is not like boiling water. It is an art that requires precision and control of the variables. You are adjusting variables with no data or experience.
HB wrote:My guess is that you have stale coffee, inadequate grinder, or both. Your espressos ran fast, so you lowered the brew pressure... so low that the OPV no longer fulfills its role as an expansion valve. To get the brew setting back to a reasonable range, consider the "runoff" method discussed in How do I check brew pressure without a gauge?


Or for more accurate measurement, build your own portafilter with pressure gauge (search will net you many suggestions like Building a Portafilter Pressure Gauge from the FAQ).
Hi,

Thank you both for the info and tips, I'll check up on your links.

I haven't bought myself a grinder yet. The more I'm reading up I'm understanding I could really use one, so it's just a matter of time i guess. :D I am however using good coffee. I bought this coffee at a highly esteemed local roastery over here, and asked the man in the shop to grind it for me. I told him it was for the Silvia and he was well familiar with the machine and adjusted the grind. So I'm pretty sure the coffee isn't stale, nor should the grinding be way off, even if It would help having a grinder myself to experiment with.

Before I started tampering with the OPV I measured the flow in the OPV back line according to the post that HB referenced and found it to be ~120ml/min for my machine, indicating a pressure of ~12 bar, thus suggesting the factory settings to be way off.

I'm going to give the flowrate method one more run and also try once when using a little less coffee in the portafilter - I read somewhere that the Silvia needs more "space" up there for the pressure to build up smoothly. Might as well try that too.

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bean2friends
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#5: Post by bean2friends »

Oliver, you just can't get proper performance from coffee that is preground, even if by a reputable roaster. You need a grinder capable of grinding for espresso. I really encourage you to read up more here on HB about grinders. It really is true, the grinder is more important than the espresso machine.

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HB
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#6: Post by HB »

oliver wrote:I haven't bought myself a grinder yet.
Whoops. Game over.
oliver wrote:I told him it was for the Silvia and he was well familiar with the machine and adjusted the grind. So I'm pretty sure the coffee isn't stale, nor should the grinding be way off, even if It would help having a grinder myself to experiment with.
You may have read that the Rancilio Silvia has a reputation for being finicky. It's not entirely undeserved, but I can say with absolute certainty that using preground coffee is a recipe for frustration. Ground coffee begins to noticeably stale in minutes. The effective grind setting for preground coffee will change significantly in 30 minutes. You could futz with dose to compensate, though it's challenging for an experienced barista and pure guesswork for a beginner.

I recommend you check out the site's Newbie Guide to Espresso video series and the Recommended Reading from the FAQs and Favorites. It will save you a lot of aggravation.
Dan Kehn

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canuckcoffeeguy
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#7: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

oliver wrote: I haven't bought myself a grinder yet. The more I'm reading up I'm understanding I could really use one, so it's just a matter of time i guess. :D
Welcome Oliver. You came to the right place for advice.

No grinder? Bingo. There's your biggest problem.

There are some certainties in life. Absolute truths. Indisputable facts. Some might even call them universal laws.

For quality espresso, there are similar truths. Grinder, grinder, grinder is the simple axiom.

There's simply no hope without a capable espresso grinder. No hope. (Don't even call Obi-Wan Kenobi. The force can't even make espresso with pre-ground).

So, kidding aside -- you're going to be terribly frustrated, to the point of resignation, if you try to make espresso without a capable grinder.

You could have the greatest espresso machine ever engineered, but you still need an espresso grinder to grind beans fresh, and dial in correctly, to have any hope of getting the myriad variables right.

I suggest you start a thread about seeking an espresso grinder. Include your budget, expected usage, routine, and kinds of drinks you want to make.

Good luck!

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Randy G.
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#8: Post by Randy G. »

As I first said in my first sentence, and as so many others have stated, no grinder = no espresso. The adjustment you made is like readjusting the toe-in on your Volvo to compensate for a flat tire.

The Silvia is a challenging machine, somewhat more so than many other single boiler machines. Even with a quality grinder it takes some work and experience to get things working well. Still, it is possible, but first things first..

Once we are assured that the coffee beans are freshly roasted and of quality, espresso is all about the grinder first, and second comes the barista, and third the machine (all that is debatable, and second and third might be close to a tie, but grinder grinder grinder). But without a good grinder Silvia is going to drive you nuts like my Aunt Silvia did me. So I advise two steps:
1 - Try to get the OPV somewhat close to where it originally was.
2 - Before you purchase a grinder ASK HERE on this forum about your possible choices and we can comment with some authority and guide you along. If you spend 150% more on the grinder than on Silvia no one around here would even blink. The grinder really is very, very important.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

oliver (original poster)
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#9: Post by oliver (original poster) »

Hi all,

I'm truly grateful for all of your time and advice, it has helped me a lot.

After some research I finally picked up a Vario today. It seemed like a decent fit for the Silvia and also has a couple of coarser settings that should work well with a french press, which I still enjoy at times.

My Silvia is recalibrated to ~9 bars and I've also had the pleasure of learning the technique of temp surfing the machine. I now enjoy espressos of the correct volume using ~25s pulls. :D
HB wrote:I recommend you check out the site's Newbie Guide to Espresso video series and the Recommended Reading from the FAQs and Favorites. It will save you a lot of aggravation.
I looked through some of your videos and I must say you have done an amazing job compiling all that knowledge. I will take another look at some of them for sure as my interest grow and espressos gets tastier. Thanks!