Good morning,

I have been surfing this site and various others for a few months now - it has been extremely helpful in improving my techniques etc. I have recently purchased a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky. I am getting better at my dosing and tamping etc and am now looking at installing a PID.

The 2 models I am looking at are from Auber Instruments. One is the Delux model $149 and the other is the Delux model with steam control for $187.

http://auberins.com/index.php?mai...h=6&products_id=36
http://auberins.com/index.php?mai...h=6&products_id=58

I have done some various searches but I have no yet seen any descriptions on whether it is worth it to get the steam control. The only post I found on another forum seemed to indicate that the steam control isn't a separate PID control (not really sure what is meant by that).

My initial thought is that I would go without the steam control and just watch the temperature indicator to see when the light switched off. I would then know when to start my steam by just beginning a few degrees before the light is set to go off. Thoughts?

The reason I am looking at the Auber is twofold, (1) I like the style of it and how it seems to visually integrate with the machine and (2) is is less costly then others I have seen.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

I have the the PID kit without the steam control. This PID kit is still very helpfull for steaming because you can always see the temp of the boiler even when you turn on the steam switch. I know if I start steaming when the temp gets to the high 260s I'll get maximum steam power. I guess what putting the PID on the steam side would do is you wouldn't have to pay as much attention after you turn on the steam switch to catch the sweet spot the PID would hold it for you.

Thanks John. That is what I was thinking too - in that the steam function isn't necessary. In terms of determining the right temp to begin your steam did you simply monitor it once through to see what temp the boiler switched off and then begin a few degrees prior to that point?

The instructions that come with the PID kit give the tip on when to start steamng. They mention a range (I don't recall the exact numbers) as it will be slighly different from machine to machine. Mine will keep the heater on as long as I start steaming before it gets in the 270s. You have the basic idea correct, start a bit before the thermostat turns off the heater so that the heater stays on during steaming.

BTW, I really like the kit. PID really helps on the brewing side a lot. The instructions with the kit are great, I had no problems at all.

Thanks for your replies John, really appreciate it. I think I will go with the delux model without the steam control. Hopefully I will get it soon after my new machine.

Just got mine 2 weeks ago but the cover for the grouphead (the chrome painted plastic) is peeling off. The dealer where I bought it doesn't have the part so they are just giving me a new machine.

The Auber PID works great for steaming even without the steam control.

My technique works like this:

1. Turn on steam
2. Purge wand of water at 125C
3. Let temp rise to 135C then open wand.
4. Continue steaming milk, heater will stay on but temp will only go up a bit (to 137C) but will not go to the 140C cut-off.

This PID technique makes perfect microfoam with good high pressure and even more importantly, at a constant pressure so you can accurately control the stretching and rolling phases.

The single hole tip, boiler size and heating element are all perfectly balanced on the Silvia. (I doubt the 2009 model 3-hole tip on the Silvia will work as well).

Funny enough, the Silvia makes better microfoam than on my unbalanced $2000 Vivaldi DB !

Good to hear Endo,

What temp do you have yours set to? Did you have much adjustments to make?

Also, I saw a post ion CG about an issue one member had attempting to remove his steam wand and the fact that the PID was in the way. Is there a clearance issue? Have you noticed any water/steam issues being that the PID isn't waterproof?

I've never tried to remove my steam wand but I did notice that if I wanted to there is a clearance issue.

The poster on GC was advised by Auber to pry off the PID and then reinstall with new 3M tape. Not great solution but not sure if any way around this - other then putting the PID in a different location.

I suppose you could modify the case before installing it to create the clearance needed. Not being home right now to look at it I'm not sure if there is enough dead material on the case to work with or if it would interfere with the screw holding the back panel. An alternate location would certainly work. I've never had a need to remove the steam wand.

thefly wrote:What temp do you have yours set to? Did you have much adjustments to make?

The PID reads about 10C high compared to the brew temp. I set mine to 105C and it tasted about right as a starting point for most beans. I left there most of the time but it's as easy as pressing a button if you want to adjust it and experiment a little.

thefly wrote:Also, I saw a post ion CG about an issue one member had attempting to remove his steam wand and the fact that the PID was in the way. Is there a clearance issue?

It's mounted with 2 sided tape. Just slice it away with an x-acto and then clean off the adhesive with contact cement cleaner. Then re-apply tape which you can buy anywhere. No biggie.

thefly wrote: Have you noticed any water/steam issues being that the PID isn't waterproof?

No problem with water getting in. It's actually sealed up pretty well.

Don't get to caught up in all the questions. Just go for it. You won't regret it (best accessory I ever bought).

Thanks John and Endo,

I did actually order it today but then started coming up with questions. You are right, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to remove and replace should the steam wand ever need replacing.

Thanks too for the starting temp. I have seen various figures thrown around (from 213F to 228F) so I wasn't sure where to start.

Looking forward to it - I seem to suck at temp surfing so far as I have not received any consistent results - not to mention that I seem to overdose still half of the time and hit the screen which tears my puck apart.

"best accessory I ever bought"

Agreed. It beats the pants off of surfing and makes pulling your shots SO MUCH more consistent. I don't see why they don't offer it stock with a PID at least as an option.

I eyeballed the clearance this morning and you might be able to get away with mounting it so it sticks out the front a bit rather than being flush with the front panel to create enough clearance to work the steam wand nut.

On temp I moved the temp down a bit from the stock setting (I think it was 221F) as that seemed to cause a bit too much bitterness. My starting point now with any new coffee is 218F. As Endo says it's just a push of a button to adjust with the PID so dialing in a new coffee is no big deal. Enjoy!

On your overdose issue another big improvement for me was to get a slighly larger ridgeless double basket. I think it's a 16 gram double. I weigh my coffee and load it with 15.4 grams. I no longer have any issues with the puck expanding into the screen. Makes cleanup a lot easier too. With the stock basket I was dosing 14 grams and that would consistently hit the screen. I suppose the right thing to do with that basket would be to lower the dose.

On your overdose issue another big improvement for me was to get a slighly larger ridgeless double basket. I think it's a 16 gram double. I weigh my coffee and load it with 15.4 grams. I no longer have any issues with the puck expanding into the screen. Makes cleanup a lot easier too. With the stock basket I was dosing 14 grams and that would consistently hit the screen. I suppose the right thing to do with that basket would be to lower the dose.

I started putting only 2 scoops of beans into the Rocky and grinding until done. Makes it easier then eyeballing. I am getting 14g into the stock Rancilio double. However when I insert the PF and then remove I am getting a fairly large nut imprint into the puck. If I accidently go over 14g (even a bit) I can't get the PF in or the puck gets torn. Seems 14g is the max.

Since I have to bring in my machine tomorrow to the place I bought it (due to grouphead paint peeling issues) I have thought of getting a naked PF. They sell a Rancilio naked that has been re-chromed and comes with a triple basket. This would let me (1) get over the dosage issues and (2) start assessing my dossing and tamping via the naked pour.

The cost keeps going up - after getting Silvia and Rocky I have now gone and added the PID and likely a naked PF.....but when I have gotten a few really good shots so far that make it worth it, especially as I used to have a *$ Barista (saeco) machine and grinder.

I use a naked PF but not the GIGANTIC triple basket it came with, lol. It certainly helps seeing what is going on during the extraction. I had the exact same experience with the stock basket. As I said above I suppose the proper thing to do would be to use less coffee with that basket. I like the ridgeless as I can tamp with the basket alone, which helps me get an even tamp, and then easily put it in the pf without disturbing the puck.

Yeah, can't imagine using a 21 g basket much - maybe I will try and see if they will give me a different double instead. They have a "microfine" 58 mm la marzocco style basket there but I am not sure if it is the ridgeless that others have bought.

EDIT: I plan on picking up some Epic espresso from 49th Parallel, they recommend a dose of 18-19g, so maybe the 21g triple would work well for this.

Ok, so got my naked PF (still waiting on the PID).

I tried the 18g into the triple basket and ended up with a soggy puck and and underextracted pour. I went back to the 14g double and got a decent shot - still not consistent tastes - hopefully temp stability is the issue.

Now, question - mine will be sent to my set in celsius, but should it instead be set to fahrenheit to give more adjustment - ie 1 degress F is less then 1 degree C.?

thefly wrote:Yeah, can't imagine using a 21 g basket much - maybe I will try and see if they will give me a different double instead. They have a "microfine" 58 mm la marzocco style basket there but I am not sure if it is the ridgeless that others have bought.

Second best Silvia accessory I bought (after the PID): Synesso ridgeless double basket (amazing the difference it makes).

Where did you order this from? Espressoparts?

How would you describe the difference? Do you notice any difference in taste etc? Currently with 14g in the stock rancilio basket I get about 1.25 to 1.5 oz pull before blonding sets in around the 22 sec mark.

Thanks again for your help.

EDIT: I see that the Elysian Room here in Vancouver is the Synesso dealer. Gave them a call and they recommend the 14g double which can be dosed to 18g. I wonder though if I would have the same clearance issue with the screen (I did a mod this weekend to remove the hex bolt and countersunk the screen and water displacer). You use the 18g triple, what dosage do you use in that? Do you dose 18g or overdose?

Sorry, I must correct (it's been about a year since I bought it). I used the Synesso 14g double ridgeless basket bought at Espressoparts. And yes, you can fill it easily to 17g as claimed.

Cost me about $25 to get it to Canada but it was worth it. Some new flavours came through I hadn't tasted before, fuller and rounder mouth feel. Tastes like doing a 2.5 shot (if there is such a thing). I lent it to a friend to see if he got the same result and he confirmed.

The basket has a more square bottom and consequently more holes (if I remember correctly). The more cyclindrical shape allows you to pack more in as well. Beautiful looking basket. Even the holes are more precisely made and distributed.

In contrast, the LaSpaziale baskets I now own on my current machine look like crap (although the PF is nicely made). Very poorly centered hole pattern on these L/S baskets. I wish manufacturers would try and spend more effort on proper basket design and manufacture (especially singles). Too bad Synesso doesn't make 53mm baskets.