Rancilio S26 Problems

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AndrewMoizer
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#1: Post by AndrewMoizer »

Hi there,
we have an S26 at our Cafe (http://www.YellowCanoeCafe.ca) in Merrickville. Yesterday, when I wasn't there, it started acting up. Apparently the pressure gauge went into the red, but dropped back way down as soon as you opened the hot water tap. If I've got the sketchy story straight the steamer also stopped working.

I gave it a bit of a look over this morning. Now the safety valve on the top of the boiler doesn't seem to be sealing. Water slowly leaks out of it. If you turn the machine on the boiler gets pretty hot (too hot to touch) but the hot water and steam taps don't work when you open them. The pressure gauge doesn't really come off the stop. If you push the brew button, warm water comes out, but it's a long way from steam.

UPDATE: Just discovered that what I've been referring to as the "safety valve" is really the "vacuum breaker".

I took the safety valve out and here's a couple of pics:

The shaft if very loose in the nut. It looks like just an O ring that's supposed to seal. Is it anything special or can I just use one from my O ring collection?

I'd also really welcome any other insights. I have a feeling that this machine could be scaled up inside. We have fairly hard water and I haven't recharged the softener very diligently <blush>. We use this mainly for hot water for tea and the valve there has worn out I think. It's hard to turn and has been running slowly for a while. Prior to the recent failure, the hot water works well, apart from coming out slowly, as does the steam. The water coming out of the group head always seemed a bit cool to me. When I ran it into a cup and took the temperature it was always a good bit (sorry forget the temperature) below 200F. The coffee always seemed fine (although I'm no barista so could be easy to please).

I'm kinda tempted to take the boiler out (seems like if I remove the 6 top bolts it'll drop down through the hole in the bottom of the machine (when I take the screen there out).

I'd also welcome suggestions on parts sources. Espressotec seem to have a good website and are in Canada. There's also Morala Trading in Ottawa (but I haven't called them yet).

cheers, (& many thanks in advance)
Andrew

AndrewMoizer (original poster)
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#2: Post by AndrewMoizer (original poster) »

Further information. The tech guy from Morala just called back and he says if water's leaking out from the Vacuum Breaker/Anti Siphon valve then it's the input solenoid valve that's gone. Does that sound reasonable? It still seems to me that the vacuum breaker should seal when it's pressurized from below. As I figure it, it should open when the pressure in the boiler is lower than outside.

regards,
Andrew

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erics
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#3: Post by erics »

Well, now that you've removed the vacuum breaker valve, where is the water level? It should be ABOUT 2/3 of the boiler height. This tech that called you was hopefully referring to the boiler fill solenoid and, yes, that could be leaking but more than likely the boiler water level has crept up due to deposit formation on the level probe.

The machine should be taken to them for evaluation and an estimate on returning it to service. You can (and should) have a separate hot water maker for tea service AND possibly pour over coffee service.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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stefano65
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#4: Post by stefano65 »

As Eric suggested check the level probe
however if is a probe issue the autofill will keep running and you will hear the motor/pump
another issue
the inlet solenoid ( 2 ways valve)
can be slowly fill the boiler if there is some contamination an the plunger doesn't close
once the boiler is full the pressurestat will have to work much harder to heat the water since the boiler is suppose completely full and there for also no room for steam to build up

now you can also have pressurestat problems if it didn't shut off

all the above issues indicate to me that you have scale to deal with
Stefano Cremonesi
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repairs & sales from Oregon.

AndrewMoizer (original poster)
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#5: Post by AndrewMoizer (original poster) »

Thanks everyone. I wouldn't be surprised that I have a scale build up. If I understand how the heat exchanger works I could have it both inside the boiler and inside the HX tube itself. Are there suggestions on the best way to delime this? I'm thinking that our strong acid based de-limer that we use for the dishwasher is too strong and will attack the brass in the HX and components.

As for this problem, the boiler is slowly filling up even with the power off. So I'd say that some scale caught in the fill solenoid valve that's letting water seep by sounds like a rational explanation. The boiler was completely full of water when I took the vacuum breaker valve out. I guess it wasn't sealing because the pressure wasn't built up from steam, because the boiler was over-full. Makes sense to me. (I'm not comfortable until I understand the "why" behind something).

I'll pull out the level probe once I'm back from this morning's provisioning run. If nothing else I'm thinking it should give me an indication of the level of scale build up I'm facing.

And to erics comments on other services, we have a pour over coffee machine as well, but use the S26 for tea hot water. I haven't explored other tea water alternatives. We have a very tiny kitchen/servery space. We don't sell many espresso based drinks in an average day (more than half a dozen would be a big day). I'm open to suggestions on other boiling water (has to be *really* hot to make "proper" tea) sources as we're often backed up on the tea water front, either waiting for the boiling water to come out, or the machine to recover.

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the time and insight.

cheers,
Andrew

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erics
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#6: Post by erics »

I'm open to suggestions on other boiling water . . .
http://www.zojirushi.com/ourproducts/el ... cpots.html
We don't sell many espresso based drinks in an average day (more than half a dozen would be a big day).
Given the time and/or money you (or someone else) would need to fix this S26 correctly and your espresso sales, I'd say its time for a new machine that is more in tune with your sales. Perhaps a road trip to Espressotec is in order.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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stefano65
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#7: Post by stefano65 »

look inside the solenoid inlet valve
clean or replace
or like Eric says have somebody qualify take care of it
Stefano Cremonesi
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repairs & sales from Oregon.

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HB
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#8: Post by HB »

AndrewMoizer wrote:We don't sell many espresso based drinks in an average day (more than half a dozen would be a big day).
At that sales level, I would not bother with espresso.
Dan Kehn