I have a Quickmill Vetrano that is plumbed into my kitchen faucet. It is on a timer and fires up at 5:30AM. When I finally make it downstairs around 6:30AM the drip tray is always overflowing. I haven't started tearing it apart yet to find the culprit but wanted to ping the collective and see if there are some common reasons for leaking machines. I did a search on "leak" and "leaking" but nothing really came up that was what I am experiencing.

The bottom of the group valve drips a bit but not enough to fill a drip tray. The cam shaft for the switch lever also leaks a bit as well, but once again not enough to fill a tray. When I dump the tray in the AM I do see some residual dripping from the overflow on the right that feeds into the drip tray. I suspect it may be the pump but as I said I haven't tore it apart yet. I'm going to attempt the dissection this afternoon.

I have a Quickmill Vetrano that is plumbed into my kitchen faucet

Hopefully via a pressure regulator set to deliver 2.5 to 3.0 bar to the machine during flow conditions?

Seems as though your OPV is leaking. The OPV on Vetrano is really a pressure relief valve set to 12-13 bar and is there to protect the hydraulic system from overpressure due to thermal expansion of the water in the hx circuitry.

Order a new OPV insert and an o-ring for the adjuster plus the parts to fix your other ills and you will be good to go.

Why don't you just call our service department and ask for assistance before diving into an unfamiliar area. For starters it sounds like you have too much pressure going to the machine and that you have hard water as well. If you are dripping from the lever you need to change the two gaskets and lubricate it before putting it back together. If you are dripping from the bottom of the group that is a sign of scale build up. The same is true of the dripping from the expansion valve, it should be set for 12 bar and should not be dripping.

I'm onboard with all the suggestions from Eric/Chris, but will add my own: Install a cutoff solenoid. That is, a normally closed solenoid just prior to the machine hookup that is wired to piggyback clips on the pump. With this setup, water can only flow if power is present at the pump. Besides the safety benefit, your town's plumbing code, like ours, may require such a backflow arrangement.

chris wrote:Why don't you just call our service department and ask for assistance before diving into an unfamiliar area.

You know that is a darn good idea. I had a really good experience with your service dept about a year after I purchased the machine. The problem is I've been working so much lately I haven't been near the machine during normal East Coast working hours. That said I don't want my machine to go down so I will make an effort to call this week. Thanks.

erics wrote:Hopefully via a pressure regulator set to deliver 2.5 to 3.0 bar to the machine during flow conditions?

Seems as though your OPV is leaking. The OPV on Vetrano is really a pressure relief valve set to 12-13 bar and is there to protect the hydraulic system from overpressure due to thermal expansion of the water in the hx circuitry.

Order a new OPV insert and an o-ring for the adjuster plus the parts to fix your other ills and you will be good to go.

I'll make note of that for when I call Chris.

HB wrote:Install a cutoff solenoid. That is, a normally closed solenoid just prior to the machine hookup that is wired to piggyback clips on the pump. With this setup, water can only flow if power is present at the pump. Besides the safety benefit, your town's plumbing code, like ours, may require such a backflow arrangement.

Good idea. I'll fish for threads on the solenoid and how to install it. My town doesn't have any backflow regulations but I did just get a notice that my water pressure went up. Come to think of it that was when my problems started. If you read this and know a good link for installing a solenoid please share. It will save me the trouble of fishing for it.

Thank you all for your input. I'll post to this thread when the problem is discovered and the machine is working again.

Dan, your suggestion makes me wonder about a question... If I may...

With regards to a Rotary pump machine, plumbed in, running at 3Bar line pressure(regulated or not, its 3BAR, for arguments sake). Then, add the Solenoid as you suggest. Making it so water can't enter the machine unless you engage the pump.. Am I correct on this?

If I am correct...

This would mean that you would not be able to use Line-Pressure PI, by lifting the lever to the mid-way spot.. Correct? I realize that today, few people, if any at all, seriously use the Line Pressure PI on E-61 machines these days... But nonetheless, adding the solenoid would make this impossible, correct?

Reason I ask is more curiosity then anything.

HB wrote:I'm onboard with all the suggestions from Eric/Chris, but will add my own: Install a cutoff solenoid. That is, a normally closed solenoid just prior to the machine hookup that is wired to piggyback clips on the pump. With this setup, water can only flow if power is present at the pump. Besides the safety benefit, your town's plumbing code, like ours, may require such a backflow arrangement.

Not that this is a bad idea, but can't you meet a code against backflow with a simple check valve, such as this one? Technically, it strikes me that a solenoid actually shouldn't satisfy code against backflow, since it can't prevent backflow when the pump is working. If, say, the pump goes out and you brew, backflow could happen.

To the OP, since you're a happy Chris Coffee customer (me too!), you should also order this regulator valve and water pressure gauge. The regulator works great for pressure reduction, and the gauge will help you set it a little more easily and accurately than the gauge on Vetrano will. I believe Chris preinstalls the gauge when you order it with the regulator.

Also, not to make light of excessively high water pressure, which is bad for your rotary pump... but I'd guess that your primary problem is most likely scale, and not high water pressure. The fittings downstream of your pump are designed to withstand 11-12 bars (160-175 psi) of pressure without batting an eye: it's very unlikely they are leaking because your water line hit 75 psi (which would be very high for municipal water supply). It's much more likely that scale accumulation around the valves in your group and OPV are the culprits for your leaks, and you either need to step up your descaling regimen or soften the water you're feeding Vetrano using this or this or this or this or any of the other many softening systems out there. If you have a softener, make sure it's running healthy and doesn't need to be recharged/have its filters changed.

Good luck!

JmanEspresso wrote:But nonetheless, adding the solenoid would make this impossible, correct?

Correct (duh ).

shadowfax wrote:Technically, it strikes me that a solenoid actually shouldn't satisfy code against backflow, since it can't prevent backflow when the pump is working. If, say, the pump goes out and you brew, backflow could happen.

Good point (duh me , but in my defense, that's why they have plumbing inspectors).

shadowfax wrote:...it's very unlikely they are leaking because your water line hit 75 psi (which would be very high for municipal water supply).

The street pressure in our city is approx. 100 PSI. The house pressure regulator brings it down to a more reasonable 50 PSI, though it's worth checking from time-to-time. The seals on our pressure regulator started to fail after around 10 years, so the flow rate pressure was around 50 PSI, but the static pressure would creep up to street pressure. The giveaway is an initial whoosh of water from the tap if you haven't used the water in awhile.

HB wrote:The street pressure in our city is approx. 100 PSI. The house pressure regulator brings it down to a more reasonable 50 PSI, though it's worth checking from time-to-time. The seals on our pressure regulator started to fail after around 10 years, so the flow rate pressure was around 50 PSI, but the static pressure would creep up to street pressure. The giveaway is an initial whoosh of water from the tap if you haven't used the water in awhile.

Good gracious, does your showerhead knock you over when you turn it on?! Still, I'd contend again that the parts downstream of the pump should be relatively comfortable with about double that pressure, but... yeah. To the OP, have you looked inside your Vetrano? It's a good idea to have the lid off and glance at your rotary pump. You want to make sure it isn't leaking. Sometimes they will develop tiny leaks, and you'll see calcium buildup around the neck of the pump where it couples to the motor, usually around the small ventilation holes. If you see buildup like this or other indication of leaks at the pump, you may need to have your pump serviced. I assume you're out of warranty through Chris' Coffee. He may still help you out, but if not, you can call Shawn Thompson at Fluid-O-Tech; they'll typically service and refurbish a pump for around $40 unless it has significant damage.

shadowfax wrote:...

Also, not to make light of excessively high water pressure, which is bad for your rotary pump... but I'd guess that your primary problem is most likely scale, and not high water pressure. The fittings downstream of your pump are designed to withstand 11-12 bars (160-175 psi) of pressure without batting an eye: it's very unlikely they are leaking because your water line hit 75 psi (which would be very high for municipal water supply). It's much more likely that scale accumulation around the valves in your group and OPV are the culprits for your leaks, and you either need to step up your descaling regimen or soften the water you're feeding Vetrano ...

Oddly enough my muni water pressure went up to 123psi. For some reason my city thinks it necessary to peel paint off the walls with a garden hose. Seriously, I can get 12 - 15 feet from a garden hose. I had to use a pressure regulator in the shower just to keep it from hurting my wife's skin.

After reading all of this I decided it is a combination of things.

I do have hard water and I haven't changed my filters in a while. I had my machine serviced by a commercial servicer about a year ago and he said the scale build up wasn't all that bad. But minor scale with extremely high pressure probably blew out some seals. I am going to try and call Chris coffee today and order the parts I need keep it from leaking.

Thanks again all.