Quick Mill Silvano from Chris' Coffee - Page 2

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Beezer
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#11: Post by Beezer »

This actually looks really promising. I like that the boiler is directly above the group, so the boiler temp and brew temp should be pretty close, especially with the PID controlling the temperature. The commercial group is also a very nice touch in this price range. And with a manometer, you should be able to set pressure fairly accurately, as opposed to the Silvia, where the OPV is adjustable but there's no way to confirm the brew pressure without a separate gauge.

I also like the fact that the water reservoir is visible from the side, so you can see if it needs to be refilled without taking off the warming tray. You can even refill it without moving the machine, since it slides out sideways. Nice big drip tray too. Lots of great features on this machine.

Seems like this would be a great option for someone who likes straight shots and doesn't necessarily need to have tons of steam power for milk drinks. It would make a nice back up machine for the office or for travelling, or a good primary machine if you don't want to spend the money for an HX or true double boiler.
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TrlstanC
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#12: Post by TrlstanC »

I'd be really interested to see how it steams, I think that will be the real selling point for this machine - it doesn't have to steam better than an HX, it just has to be better then all the machines with smaller dual use boilers. I'd imagine that a good sized thermoblock could steam as well as a small single boiler if it's designed well, and the fact that this machine has a dedicated pump for the steam as well is a good sign.

In fact if Chris has figured out how to make it work he could almost take those two components out, package them in some plastic or SS and sell them as a small milk steamer, if they weren't too expensive....

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Beezer
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#13: Post by Beezer »

It does occur to me that this machine will probably be much more attractive at the current price of $800 than the "normal" retail price of $1,000. Once the price goes up, it will be more in competition with HX machines like the Bezerras and the Oscar, which are probably still going to offer more bang for the buck, especially if you like to make milk drinks. If it's priced at $800, it's more competitive with Silvia and other single boiler machines, and it looks like a much better value. So I don't know how well it will sell once the price goes up, but right now it looks like a good deal.
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nitpick
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#14: Post by nitpick »

This looks like a great machine but I do agree with other posters that everything about its success will rest on its steaming ability. I really don't see it appealing to the crowd that only makes a steamed milk beverage occasionally. That crowd, like me, is already well served by Silvia-class machines. Sure, it's a pain to switch modes but when she steams, Silvia steams like there's no tomorrow.

On the other hand if the Silvano steams well then it becomes a practical "steam-whenever-you-want" machine and becomes serious competition not only to Silvia, but to all the $1k-$2k HX machines. Endless steam, PID brew temperature control. No "cooling flush" nonsense. What could be better other than an autofill brew boiler?

If it does steam well it will wipe out the remaining market for Silvia. But it's also going to take the HX market down too. And that will be the much more interesting story. Again, it's all about the steam. If it steams well and endlessly then even at $1k it's a game changer.

dialydose (original poster)
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#15: Post by dialydose (original poster) »

Yes, steaming will be the question. I have always thought that a thermoblock setup makes about 100x more sense than a huge steam boiler if it they could just get the confirguration/engineering correct. Think about a commercial machine that didn't need a 15 liter boiler keeping water above the boiling point endlessly and could produce sufficient steam on demand...perfect! I know that it can be done (we put a man on the moon over 40 years ago). The issue is obviously cost and market, but we could certainly scale back the size and energy consumption of these beasts with such an arrangement.

BeastinBarista
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#16: Post by BeastinBarista »

dialydose wrote:Pretty interesting coincidence...

I know some folks on coffeegeek ordered this machine. I will be interested to hear initial comments, particulalry regarding steaming ability. I remember hearing that the Kitchen Aid attempt at this concept struggled with steaming ability (among other things). The concept of a dedicated thermoblock for steam makes perfect sense, but the execution seems to have failed in the past.

Actually the KitchenAid Pro Line was a dual boiler machine, no thermoblock in use. It really worked quite well (grossly overpriced at first IMO), having TWO 3.5 oz. Gaggia boilers. So it was easily as good as the best home model Gaggia machine, just no temperature surfing/waiting needed.

Now Gaggia did introduce the Baby Twin some time ago that uses a thermoblock for steaming and it has never gotten decent reviews.

dialydose (original poster)
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#17: Post by dialydose (original poster) »

BeastinBarista wrote:Actually the KitchenAid Pro Line was a dual boiler machine, no thermoblock in use. It really worked quite well (grossly overpriced at first IMO), having TWO 3.5 oz. Gaggia boilers. So it was easily as good as the best home model Gaggia machine, just no temperature surfing/waiting needed.

Now Gaggia did introduce the Baby Twin some time ago that uses a thermoblock for steaming and it has never gotten decent reviews.
Thanks, I think you are right and it was the Gaggia Twin I was thinking of with the thermoblock. Chris mentioned to someone from the CG forums that he was working on putting together a video of the machine in action...I am sure similar to the other videos they have done. The video should tell a lot about the steaming ability.

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stefano65
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#18: Post by stefano65 »

PictureThyme wrote:Interesting name: Silv-a-NO
if I remember correctly Silvano is the quickmill owner's name
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another_jim
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#19: Post by another_jim »

dialydose wrote: ... I have always thought that a thermoblock setup makes about 100x more sense than a huge steam boiler ...
Thermoblocks are more energy efficient, but they need a lot of energy at the time of use. Boilers are less efficient, but since they store energy, they don't need as much power while steaming.

A lot of double boiler and boiler/thermoblock machines shot themselves in the foot by not allowing simultaneous shot making and steaming. The Gaggia Twin, the KitchenAid machine, and some versions of the Techno and Vivaldi had this drawback, making them utterly pointless to my mind.

This Quickmill seems much better thought out. The steam will be slow with an 800 watt thermoblock, but being able to steam while pulling shots will more than compensate. (I know Chris says it steams fast, but the first law of thermodynamics trumps manufacturer's specifications -- 800 watts and no energy storage must add up to relatively slow steaming)
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c1raider
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#20: Post by c1raider »

Not arguing with you Jim however you must also remember that a thermoblock is not trying to instantly steam .5L of water.

Its analogous to making the statement that a laser can't light up a room very well, and of course it can't. But, a laser isn't trying to light up a room, it's transmitting a highly concentrated beam of photons from one specific location to another.

The same logic applies to a thermoblock, it's trying to superheat a very small quantity of water. The only difference is the target or subject of the transmitted energy is continuously changing in a thermoblock.