Need some advice.
On initial start up, the machine would not fill the boilers following the exact procedure as stated in the owner's manual. With telephone support, the tech thought maybe the boiler fill solenoid was not opening.

Upon removing the case, I found one of the transparent rubber water hoses tightly crimped over a copper tube leading from the brew boiler to the E61 group head. It was so obviously mis-routed that it called into question the level of care and quality control in the assembly of these machines.

Further inspection found several (5-6) places were the electrical wires were in direct contact with copper tubing. With the brew boiler operating at 200+F and the steam around 264, I question how long it will take for the wire insulation to melt, allowing 120 volts to go to ground.

My questions:
Is this the way Quick Mill does things, or is this typical of Italian-made espresso machines?
If this machine is returned under warranty for repair, should I insist that the wiring be routed such as to not contact copper plumbing?
Should I just return this under the 30-day "no-questions-asked" grace period and get something else?

We have been enjoying making our morning lattes with an old single boiler Saeco for 15 years, but I am new to these mid-level home espresso machines.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
Jack

These machines have a decent reputation here on the forums and are respectable in many aspects. Can you produce pictures of the interior of machine. I don't think anything that you mentioned seemed out of the ordinary, these wires are insulated and able to withstand these temperatures along with the other components so I would worry too much about the wires. However if the wires are exposed with no insulation then that is a different story.

Duffy5 wrote:...should I insist that the wiring be routed such as to not contact copper plumbing?

I'm not an electrician, but wire insulation should be rated for high temperature environments so incidental contact is a non-issue. Temperature isn't the problem, it's vibration or pinch points wearing the insulation away. If the wires are neatly routed and tied off at regular intervals, it's fine. Higher-end espresso machines will include wire bundle wraps (e.g., La Marzocco, La Cimbali), but that's less common on prosumer/semi-commercial models like Quickmill.

Full disclosure: Chris' Coffee Service is a site sponsor. With that out of the way, if you've read customer reports about Chris' Coffee Service, you probably know they have a solid reputation for service and attention to detail. They work with manufacturers like Quickmill to tweak the design/assembly to avoid post-sales service issues. In the unlikely event you have an issue, I have no doubt Chris' Coffee Service (or one of their distributors) will stand behind the product.

I will try this again since my first attempt evaporated.
Here is the picture of the water line crimped over the copper tubing leading from the brew boiler to the E61 group head. The line has been raised to reduce the restriction, but still rests against the copper tubing. This is obviously unacceptable. Also notice the black wires just above this water line stretched against the same copper tubing. In the lower right of the photo are the blue and black wires in contact with the small copper tubing leading from what I presume is the 3-way valve.

There are 3-4 other places where wires are contacting copper tubing likely to be heated to 220-260 degrees F. One of these locations is a small diameter wire (18-22 gauge?) with minimal insulation contacting the copper line to the upper connection of the brew group.

The QM67 has a relatively small counter top footprint for a double boiler machine and there is not a lot of room for the necessary plumbing, electrical control and wiring runs. However, it appears that little care was employed in the routing of the wiring to keep it from contacting hot surfaces. Thus my questions.

I hope the picture is helpful and very much look forward to comments anyone might have. I can take more pictures if needed.

Thank you
Jack

With the exception of the poorly routed silicone tubing, the rest looks pretty neat, at least by the standards I've observed in Italian espresso machines over the years. It looks like a few of the wiring routes are sheathed; years ago, that was unheard of for prosumer/semi-commercial espresso machines. I wouldn't be concerned about hot copper tubes touching insulated wires since they are likely rated to at least 400°F (disclosure: I don't know that for a fact, nor am I an electrician).

The poorly routed silicone tubing connects to a barbed fitting; you could detach, reroute, and then reattach it. That said, you sound unsatisfied, so you might want to consider cutting your losses. Though honestly I would not consider what you've depicted as evidence of poor workmanship. There's definitely equipment a notch higher, e.g., Olympia Express component selection, seams, and routing are impeccable. But they also sell at a painfully high premium.

Dan Kehn
I very much appreciate your timely and thoughtful reply and feel much better about the routing of wiring against the copper plumbing runs. Thank you.
Am not dissatisfied, as you suggested, and will continue to work with your distributor to do whatever it takes to get this machine up and running. However I do not think it unreasonable to receive their assurance that the 30-day clock for return and refund does not start until the machine is operating correctly. The retailer has been very prompt and helpful with telephone and email support. No complaints there.
I can reroute the water line and tidy up the wiring runs with ties, especially the smaller gauge wires which are not sheathed. So... if we can get the boiler fill problem resolved, things should be fine.
The tech support person has suggested I test the water fill solenoid by setting up the machine, turning on the pump and tapping the solenoid with the end of a plastic screwdriver. I am happy to try that and maybe it will work without having to remove and clean the solenoid or replace it outright.
In your experience, what level of comfort should I have as to the solenoid sticking again in the future and is simply whacking it the appropriate fix?
Thanks again.
Jack

Duffy5 wrote:In your experience, what level of comfort should I have as to the solenoid sticking again in the future and is simply whacking it the appropriate fix?

Solenoids aren't complex, really just an electromagnet, spring, and slider. So it may be as simple as a bit of grit/swarf causing some sticking that's resolved with whacking/cleaning. As for the 30-day clock, you really have two full years for any warranty issues. It's probably cold comfort, but I'm surprised more espresso machines aren't DOA given the shipping company's manhandling. The QM67 is about at the maximum for shipping boxed via UPS/FedEx versus common carrier freight on a pallet (probably 2-3x more expensive, but arguably worth it).

To: Dan Kehn

All now seems well with the QM67.
I very much appreciate your replies to my questions. Absent your input, this machine may have very well just been returned for a refund. That would have been a shame, since the first two lattes out of it surpassed the ones from our single boiler model. Still have a LOT to learn. There is so much knowledge out there and so many people willing to share what they know. Very gratifying!

The boiler fill problem went away after taking the solenoid valve apart, but without finding any obvious blockage. The water started flowing after attaching a clear hose to the entrance fitting on the steam boiler and turning the machine ON. The reason remains a mystery, as there was no obvious chunk of crud or other material observed in the hose or the container into which it flushed.

The hot water wand came with a drip, but that was addressed with a little Loctite on the threads on the bushing under the valve handle. Thanks again to excellent tech support from the retailer, who supplied photographs and verbally walked me through the procedure.

So, with that hose rerouted, six additional wire ties bundling up the small gauge wires leading to and from the PID display and the water wand drip fixed, the machine seems to be working as advertised. I am really pleased with it.

Being a neophyte at this, maybe I was unaware that purchasers should remove the case of new machines and eyeball the hose routing and make sure none of the wiring had shifted out of position during transit? It is possible that the hose stretched over the copper tubing was the result of something moving after the machine left the factory, as Curtis suggested, but given the configuration that does not appear the case in this instance. It was an easy fix.

Thanks again for your help. I hope Chris Coffee appreciates your fine work.
Regards,
Jack

Duffy5 wrote:Being a neophyte at this, maybe I was unaware that purchasers should remove the case of new machines and eyeball the hose routing and make sure none of the wiring had shifted out of position during transit?

That's not typically the case, but it happens. I'm reminded of Russell's post from Packing espresso equipment for shipment:

russel wrote:I receive and ship a lot of stuff and as a result I know the guys at my local FedEx store pretty well. Once, while I was shipping an espresso machine the associate raised an eyebrow when he noticed that the declared value was well over $1000. He asked if it was packaged well. I told him that I had packed it myself and that it should be fine. He then asked me a question that totally fried my brain for a second or two:

So you would be OK if I pushed this off the counter right now?

All I could manage to say was that I would really prefer it if he didn't. Anything you ship with a standard carrier should be able to survive a 4ft drop, and also having something else dropped onto it from 4ft above. A lot of sorting is done by machine and packages will fall from time to time. Anything heavy or with delicate bits should be either double boxed or packed in a box+foamboard with ample cushioning and support.

Back to your post... Thanks for the update, it's good to hear you're up and running.