decaf_Ed wrote:But I'm putting my vote on "the user's propensity to enjoy learning hardware" as the top criteria for choosing an HX or DB.

-Ed

Righhtt....I enjoy learning about the hardware and playing around with it. eg:I've done some basic mods to my Gaggia to improve the coffee and actually enjoy things like Scott Rao's books on espresso (with their amount of detail). I roast my own coffee so I often switch between coffees from different regions (and different brewing methods) to try to get the best out of each bean.

But at the end of the day, I would also want to be able to just set the machine up and pull a good shot when I'm too tired to think about the fine details. I like to learn and tinker with a machine, but I don't want to struggle with it.

Given all this - would a HX machine suit me better?

ethorson wrote:I have added a few PID controllers and a timer in an attempt to stabilize my old HX machine. There is a PID to regulate the boiler temperature (top left in photo), a ...

Damn, that ranks up there with HamSexy
Nice jorb there!

irrelevancy wrote:I like to learn and tinker with a machine, but I don't want to struggle with it.

Tinkering isn't the same as learning to use and love hardware that someone else devised.
I suspect if you had an HX you'd either eventually end up happy like ethorson, or end up wishing you had a DB. If you want happiness early on, I suspect that you'd prefer a DB.

-Ed

ethorson wrote:I have added a few PID controllers and a timer in an attempt to stabilize my old HX machine. There is a PID...

Absolutely gorgeous! But I bet all those analog gauges aren't too happy about those digital PIDs hanging around. And I think DB sales are now about to double.
-Ed

decaf_Ed wrote:Tinkering isn't the same as learning to use and love hardware that someone else devised.
I suspect if you had an HX you'd either eventually end up happy like ethorson, or end up wishing you had a DB. If you want happiness early on, I suspect that you'd prefer a DB.

-Ed

I think I'll qualify my statement a bit - I like to "tinker" in the sense that I don't mind going the extra mile to get good cup, and learning to make it work. I may do things like adjust the pressurestat, OPV, and install a thermometer, but that's as far as I will go. I will NEVER drill a hole in my machine or redo the wiring (waaayyy too clumsy for that!)

So it boils down to the question - if I'm willing to learn to use the machine (otherwise why bother with a semi-auto in the 1st place ), will a HX be able to consistently and reliably give me excellent coffee, as much as a DB would? Or is inconsistency in the CUP (not in the pressure gauge/thermometer/etc!) simply intrinsic to the HX design (poor barista skills not withstanding)?

Prosumer espresso machines in the last several years, whether they be single boiler dual use (SBDU), heat exchanger models (HX) or dual boiler (DB) extravagants , have seen noteworthy advances in the art of producing a consistently good shot of espresso. The Vibiemme HX model and the Rocket models are both fitted with thermosyphon restrictors which essentially turn the cooling flush into a cursory screen flush. The Bezzera line is fitted with electrical resistance heaters in the grouphead (partly out of design necessity) which could allow for some fine tuning of shot temperature profiles - a minor tinkering adventure . A good number of entry level machines are fitted with PID's as standard equipment and for those that are not yet, it has been reduced to about an hour's work & some extra $.

To me , a DB machine is a little too complex whereas to the owner of one who has delved into it a little or to the dealer who services them, they are not as complex as I make them to be. I would not want "changing the spark plugs" to be an overnighter. However, all of these machines can produce equally good espresso - some after a week or two and some after a month or two.

So, my answer to your question is "yes" - go grab or play around with, in NO PARTICULAR ORDER, a Bezzera BZ10 w/o PID, a Quickmill Anita, a Vibiemme Domobar Super Hx, or a Rocket Cellini w/ vibe pump.

HEY!! That's cheating.... letting Eric do your homework for you.
(You lucky stiff ) -Ed

Thanks all...I think the conclusion is that if I bother to understand and learn to use a HX, it will provide consistent quality shots that stack up to a DB.

But eric has now brought another question up - thermosyphon restrictors!

I was initially looking at the Quickmill Andreja Premium, but realised that it doesn't have this feature. I know that it basically doesn't do much except reduce the flushing required, but it would be nice to have I suppose. Is there a reason why you recommended the Quickmill Anita (doesn't seem to have restrictor from what I can find).

Thanks
Sing