I can't seem to pull a decent shot with the Lelit, which I've had for about four months. I've tried all the usual suggestions: varying grind, coffee, tamping, etc., but to no avail as I continue to get shots which can range from sour to bitter. BTW, I have a Lelit PL53 Grinder (doserless, stepless).

I've read, on other forums, that some Lelit owners have had similar problems. Is this a temperature and/or bar pressure issue?

Any suggestions/insights are appreciated.

It could be any number of things. Bad coffee, channeling, too hot, too cold, improper dose, coffee you don't like, etc. Are you using a naked portafilter? Are you stopping the shot when it blondes? Do you have a gram scale? Are you temp surfing? If the answer to any of theses questions is no, then that is where you should start.

I seriously doubt the machine is at fault. Most of the posts about Lelits are probably from people who are new to espresso. It takes time and patience to be able to consistently pull good shots. I've been pulling shots for about 2 years (8 mos on the Silvia) and still have lots to learn.

If you would like to eliminate temperature as a variable use the styrofoam cup method to measure the temperature of the water. Keep it mind that it will take several minutes between shots for the machine to stabilize. It takes the Silvia 4 to 5 minutes to stabilize after pulling a shot. Search HB or CG for this method.

Firstly, Howard, welcome to the Home-Barista forums. There exists a roaster, possibly near you, that offers some espresso classes - http://www.barismo.com/blog/ . This might be worth looking into. And here are some rambling thoughts:

Let the machine warm up for at least 45 minutes with the portafilter in place and use a gram scale to put 15 grams in the basket.

You don't describe your shot volume or timing but something like 1.50 to 1.75 ounces in 25-30 seconds would be a good starting point.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have been using a gram scale to measure the dose, but I haven't really tried testing the temperature. I'll work on that.

My pulls come in around 2 oz. in 27-28 seconds. The initial pull comes in at 5-6 seconds dark, but gets light pretty quickly and seems to go almost directly to blonde.

I'm not using a naked portafilter. How would that help matters?

Thanks again.

Fellow Le'lit users unite!

I'm 3 months into ownership and have experienced many of the problems that you described. 5 seconds of dark goodness and then straight to blond? Ugh, it's a classic problem.

Usually what this indicates is channeling in the puck, where a small hole lets all of the water through and over extracts one area. While temperature problems could be an issue, I'm pretty sure that channeling has been my main problem.

What a naked/bottomless portafilter does is allow you to see such problems as they happen. It's a diagnosis tool. I don't have a naked portafilter yet either, I'm waiting for some more cash to buy another portafilter (I want one "normal" and one naked).

I've been slowly improving my shots recently though. I think that the two biggest concerns are distribution and dose. Recently I've been distributing the coffee more evenly in my basket with faster doser lever pulls and basket rotation. It's worth looking into the Weiss Distribution Technique (WDT) as another alternative. I also am beginning to think that the Le'lit is very dose sensitive. With too much shower screen clearance, the puck seems to rupture easily. Getting the puck to kiss the shower screen after expansion is difficult (no scale for me yet), but might be a good choice. I've been having some luck lately by letting the puck expand fully into the shower screen. With more coffee to control the flow, it seems to change colors a bit more evenly. I have updosed by gently tapping the portafilter with grind in it, and then leveling the top.

To be honest though, I'm also starting to wonder if there is just too much pressure. Without an adjustable OPV it is difficult regulate. I know, I know! The barista is usually at fault! But the pressure profile curve for Ulka pumps means that ristretto shots could be generating 12bar of pressure, which would only exacerbate any channeling issues. I'm currently contemplating some mods...

Matt,

I've read that there should be about a 1/4 inch space after the coffee has been tamped. Is that not the case? Are you keeping the dose level with the top of the portafilter after you've tamped ("Getting the puck to kiss....")?

Also, how many grams are in your "average" dose? I've tried variations on the distribution techniques you refer to, but I should probably work on that. Also, I've noticed that I'm generally getting compact pucks (sometimes a bit watery on top), but that the surface is a bit uneven. Is that a sign of channeling? Sometimes I've noticed a slight indentation in the top of the puck, which looks like an imprint from bolt? in the grouphead.

Yes, I wonder about the pressure too, considering that the new Lelits are now set to 9 bars.

hmdavis wrote:I can't seem to pull a decent shot with the Lelit, which I've had for about four months. I've tried all the usual suggestions: varying grind, coffee, tamping, etc., but to no avail as I continue to get shots which can range from sour to bitter. BTW, I have a Lelit PL53 Grinder (doserless, stepless).

I've read, on other forums, that some Lelit owners have had similar problems. Is this a temperature and/or bar pressure issue?

Any suggestions/insights are appreciated.

Grind finer. MUCH finer. Dose less until you get the right shot time. Keep dose consistent after that. That's all there is to it. Pressure at group is much less important than getting the correct grind and dose.

Alan

I've had some nominal success in pulling shots with a darker roast from a local roaster, but I've just received an assortment of beans from CCC. When I tried to pull shots of their Cafe Rustico, I was able to meet their pull specs, e.g., 24 second pull time, 17-17.5 grams, 1.25-1.50 oz, but I'm getting somewhat sour shots.

I warm up the Lelit, make sure I dose thoroughly (Lelit grinder) and tamp (about 30lbs), and pull, but the shots are lets than satisfactory.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks.

And I would say that your portafilter (PF) should be kept in the machine during warmup and just prior to removing the PF for prep, flush a couple of ounces through the PF to further heat it up.

Yes, I do warm up the portafilter, also.