CRCasey wrote:I meant that when working with the machine at a regular steady pull rate that the overall shot temp is dialed in by the pressurestat, not so much by timing. That was all.

Oh, I see. I will have to get a reliable thermometric readings from the head/water, to know what temperature I have at 1 bar.

Another information I learned today: LaMarzocco portafilters do not fit my Promac. Different heads. So no naked LaMarzocco portafilters, I guess I will have to get one of the two portafilters I have, to a guy-who-works-with-metal, so he can cut it for me.

1st EDIT: now I have the guys to find out whether a ridgeless double basket from La Marzocco will fit my Promac's portafilter. Will report on it later.

2nd EDIT: I got it wrong, La Marzocco does not produce them, they are only called as "Ridgeless Marzocco Style Double Portafilter Basket". However, they are now available here, so I will have to get them from espressoparts, I guess. Anyway, La Marzocco baskets (57 mm) do fit my Promac portafilters—that is a good news.

Update on frothing.
After a week of training, buckets of liquid being frothed, dozen techniques tried, I think I am finally getting a hand of it. So I thought I would give a couple of advices to those with the same wand/machine I have.

1) keep your milk pitcher in the freezer before frothing
2) pour a half of a pitcher with milk
3) open the steam for two seconds, wait for it to go dry. close.
5) have the steam nozzles face you like this:
|
/\
4) put the wand into milk, just so that the steam nozzles are two millimeters underneath the milk level and the wand is slightly on the right side of the milk field
5) tilt the pitcher slightly (so that the milk level on the left side is 2 mm higher)
6) open the steam and begin the procedure. You should be hearing sounds like chhhrp chrp chhhhrpp. But avoid creation of big bubbles. the whirlpool should be there too.
7) as milk begins to increase in volume, move the pitcher lower with it.
8) remember, you should hear the sounds chhhrp chrp all through all the procedure. There could be one, two seconds delays between the sounds.
9) hold your hand on the bottom of the pitcher, and when it is begins to be very uncomfortable to hold it—turn the steam off. Do not put the wand out until the steam's intensity begins to decline (on Promac it switches off slowly, in about two seconds).
10) put out the wand, clean it with a damp cloth, let the steam out again for several seconds, to clean it.

11) put the pitcher on the table and move it in circles, to create a crater in the milk (swirl? I am not sure with the word) so big that the spinning milk almost touches the edges. Do it for 10-15 seconds. Bump the pitcher at the table for several times to get rid of the occasional bubbles. Swirl the milk again for around 5 seconds.

After that you should have an almost full pitcher with microfoam, that resembles wet shiny paint.

And let me thank this forum once again, for being such a wealth of information. Thank you, guys.

Now I have to learn latte art... For this the procedure of frothing should be adjusted, I guess. During the next week I will move the pitcher several centimeters under the surface, when milk gets warm (at the step #7). To get less thick microfoam.

Hi Vad,

Thanks for the invite. Thats my baby except I have the S27 style (Auto) My Pstat is a Sari and the dip stick looks different. I have been having problems with the milk (and soymilk) steaming as well till today.

The stock steam tip sucks, imho, period. I have bought 2 other tips one of which (a 2 hole almost as bad) and now I have a 4 hole that shoots straight (like the 2 hole did). It foams much better but also heats the milk faster so I may try plugging 2 of the holes later. For now it is works and works fast! I will update with more results after longer use.
Just today I replaced the group gasket and screen. Should be done more often since the rubber was getting brittle. The screen already had a mod done to the backing plate where you can use a flat head screw instead of the bolt. Oddly enough, it has the bolt in it. ??? The reason is the FH screw wont leave a dimple in the coffee.
I also replaced all the steam expendable parts since I had a leak at the ball. Now I get really strong steam with a slightly odd taste (rubber O ring and plastic seal? New group gasket?) and the new tip is more like a "normal" commercial machine. Just point and shoot from slightly below the surface of the milk. Furious action. If I stayed with the stock tip I would have tried one of those bell shaped pitchers. There is one called a torrid or something like that. If you think about it, it doesn't seem like a great idea to have the holes coming straight out the sides like the stock tip does to get the vortex working. When I was in SF last week, the guy in a coffee house stuck the wand straight into little over half full 20 oz pitcher, turned it on and presto, he had micro foam almost to the top in a few seconds. NICE! I have been really fortunate on the coffee end and now with roasting my own and a good grinder, I have been really blessed with great shots.
Thanks for the input and the pictures Vad! I am really happy with the quality, build, price (used) and results
with this machine. I would also like to thank (shameless plug) Espresso Parts for their help by way of parts and suggestions when repairing and for info on this machine.

Also, I pull a blank shot (single) before using this machine so my time is about 10 seconds before locking in the PF and pulling a double (14g). The only other mod I want to do soon is to bypass the pressure stat with a PID (quieter) and rent a scace device to dial it in. I may get a double boiler but it will be hard to give up some of the advantages a commercial machine has for those willing to bore the hole in their countertop and share a large amount of counter space to the machine and grinder.

Question I have. What about insulation around the sides of the boiler? Top is too busy and sides would be easy.

Hello, Lockman. The pleasure is all mine. The more people exchange information—the better.

Lockman wrote:The stock steam tip sucks, imho, period. (...) If you think about it, it doesn't seem like a great idea to have the holes coming straight out the sides like the stock tip does

I was thinking the same thing, but after a week of trying, I nailed the process and see no problems. BTW, the steam is pointed downwards, on this tip, at 45 degree angle. I have no problems getting whirlpools and foam.

Lockman wrote:Just today I replaced the group gasket and screen. Should be done more often since the rubber was getting brittle. The screen already had a mod done to the backing plate where you can use a flat head screw instead of the bolt. Oddly enough, it has the bolt in it. ??? The reason is the FH screw wont leave a dimple in the coffee.

Exactly my thoughts for a couple of days. I also think what to do with the bolt, and am in a search for a shallow-head screw. Otherwise my pucks are destroyed.

Lockman wrote:If I stayed with the stock tip I would have tried one of those bell shaped pitchers. There is one called a torrid or something like that.

Yes, Espro Thoroid. I bought a tamper from Espro, but resisted the temptation to buy a pitcher. I'd stick with the one I have, for a while

Lockman wrote:Thanks for the input and the pictures Vad! I am really happy with the quality, build, price (used) and results with this machine. I would also like to thank (shameless plug) Espresso Parts for their help by way of parts and suggestions when repairing and for info on this machine.

The pleasure is mine. I just wanted to give back to this wonderful forum and people here. Maybe sometime someone will get the same, or identical machine, and will find all the info already ready for him here.

Lockman wrote:Also, I pull a blank shot (single) before using this machine so my time is about 10 seconds before locking in the PF and pulling a double (14g). The only other mod I want to do soon is to bypass the pressure stat with a PID (quieter) and rent a scace device to dial it in. I may get a double boiler but it will be hard to give up some of the advantages a commercial machine has for those willing to bore the hole in their countertop and share a large amount of counter space to the machine and grinder.

I think my machine is yet not setup for the right pressure, and I built a pressure device http://www.home-barista.com/tips/...essure-t10898.html But it is not yet ready. Right now I have about 16 seconds before the shot goes blond, for double. I will have to dial in a correct pressure, temperature, then adjust the grinder etc. Then the relevant timing will be known to me. As for the other modifications, maybe a PID. But no double boiler for me I'd better save up for a La Marzocco GB5, and learn to operate this fine Promac meanwhile.

Lockman wrote:Question I have. What about insulation around the sides of the boiler? Top is too busy and sides would be easy.

That is an excellent question, the machine "clicks" every 3-5 minutes—annoying. Will it improve much, if I put more layers on the sides, on the top of the one that is already there?

Vad wrote:That is an excellent question, the machine "clicks" every 3-5 minutes—annoying. Will it improve much, if I put more layers on the sides, on the top of the one that is already there?

Ah, I see it now. Mine is naked. I didn't see you have insulation already. Mine has the same clicking as well.

I think the tip I got is too powerful for anything less than a 20 oz pitcher. I also chill the pitcher as well.

Here is the mod for the dispersion screw: http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/358287

I was thinking the same thing about the wand, that it is too powerful etc. But now I like it

As for the link, thank you. I will try to find the smaller head screw at the hardware store and take it from there.

Yeah, I like the amount of steam this puts out. I even tried steaming eggs with it! Came out good!
I think I may try to block holes with a toothpick since I am usually only steaming milk for one person. The new 4 hole works great for a larger amount (20 oz jug) but boils a 12 oz in a couple of seconds. I tried turning the volume down but then not much foam. I will experiment some more and see if I can get consistent results like you are. Or I can throw half my milk away. Maybe I can re-steam it??

I was looking your photo's over again and that is one beautiful machine! Looks almost brand new.

I was also playing with toothpicks, blocking the holes. But in the end, with all of them opened—it works the best for me. As for re-steaming milk, I don't know But you can experiment with water and a drop of liquid soap in it.

Thanks for the kind words, the machine has been a year in a bar somewhere. It has some dents, but otherwise looks great, I agree

Right now I am battling with the leakage around the portafilter, while I am trying to measure pump pressure using my DIY device. The manometer shows only 3.5 bar (rising slowly) and then there is a water leakage around the gasket

Probably need a new group gasket. Not a very expensive item. Do you have the back flush disk or basket yet? Before you make an order for parts, try to get a list going so you can minimize the shipping.

The rubber in the gasket is new. And when I backflush (rubber disk in a basket), I kan keep it on for 20 seconds and it does not leak. Maybe it is portafilter? I will try to screw the DIY thingy on another portafilter, maybe it won't leak.

EDIT: I tried to put the rubber disk in a basket with a DIY thingy, and it leaks. But when it is in another basket—it does not.

Interesting, I wouldn't back flush for 20 seconds though. You might stress the pump or something else. Sounds like one of your PF handles or a basket could be the issue.

An update.
I tried to measure the pressure of water going through the coffee, so I created this DIY gauge.


With which I measured 3.5 bars. Which is waay too low.


So I began to investigate and found out that the pressure is the same as in the water mains.


That lead to the conclusion that pump does not add anything to the system and that the whole time I was doing coffee with 3.5 bars Something is broken I guess.

I took apart the motor and pump, and discovered a lot of corrosion (white stuff), the motor is spinning, when switched on, but the pump, is not mooving freely, I have to force my fingers, to rotate it in any direction. When I switched the brew on, and the water was flowing through it, the pin on the pump (brass (golden) thing) did not rotate by itself, and the amount of finger-power I had to apply to make it move at least quarter of a rotation—was the same as in the case of a switched off "brew" button.





The whole story is here http://www.home-barista.com/tips/...-gauge-t10898.html and is not yet over. I will investigate further.

Man, that is a funky looking pump! I may have to look into mine just to see...

Nice DIY gauge! I see the leak over the PF you were mentioning. And that is at 3.5 bars ???

Looks like you are going to get intimate with this machine.

Lockman wrote:Man, that is a funky looking pump! I may have to look into mine just to see...
Nice DIY gauge! I see the leak over the PF you were mentioning. And that is at 3.5 bars ???
Looks like you are going to get intimate with this machine.

You sure better have a look. Just to be sure. And thank you for the compliments on the gauge, the leak over the PF is said (in other posts) to be nothing grave. I will see what will happen after I change the pump.

As far as intimacy goes, yes, the machine has occupied my thoughts for quite a few nights, what a mynx!

Update on my Promac.

So now I have a new pump in front of me. Will install it now. Fingers crossed

EDIT1: Well, I dismantled the old one, and found out that I could not unscrew the adaptors on it, that I do not have the instruments (did not notice their absence). So I figured I would screw around with the old pump. So I began to screw that adjustment screw out, then in, to the maximum. Then something inside clicked slightly. Strange, I said to myself. Then I continued to vigorously turn the knob by hand. Poured some water inside and noticed, that suddenly, the water level in the pump began to react to my knob turns. Wow. Maybe I unstuck something inside, that got stuck during one year of pump's idle state? I mounted the pump back and YES, IT BEGAN WORKING! Yowzaaa!

I have now used the gauge, and setup the pressure to be 8.5-9 bars, with a flow of water 60 ml in 24 seconds. At least it is now working and I can play with it.

As for the new pump, the seller agreed to take it back and return the money. So overall, a week of frustration, but all well that ends swell.

Thank you all for your help in identifying a problem and for your suggestions.

EDIT2: as for the leak, I will check it in a month, and see whether it is there and if it is significant. If yes, then I will change the pump for a new one.

EDIT3: I have finally made first real espresso, under a 9 bar pressure. Fresh Brazilia Fazenda Cahoeira 2009, roasted on 18. 05. 2009.

That is looking nice, how is the taste?

CRCasey wrote:That is looking nice, how is the taste?

The roastery site says that I have to expect sweetness, caramel, chocolate and toffee in the cup. But I can not manage to get them there. Instead I have a little bit of toffee and caramel in crema, but the coffee itself is slightly sour, no bitterness at all (great for those who dislike bitter taste) and a wery strong aftertaste of grapefruit. The crema itself tastes heavenly. I am not saying that the rest of the cup is bad -- it is great, but not what it said on the package I have tried to do it in a french press -- and yes, THERE is some toffee and caramel in the cup, and less grapefruit. So I think I have to grind it even more fine for the espresso. As for the orange stream -- it is normal for this particular coffee.