Profitec Pro 700 on 120V use both boilers

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Kalud
Posts: 7
Joined: 9 years ago

#1: Post by Kalud »

Hello, I've just signed up but been lurking for quite a while. I have a Profitec Pro 700 dual boiler on order. I've carefully made my choice, and settled down on this one from the following three (Rocket R58 V2, Breville Oracle, Profitec Pro 700).

I probably read everything on these machine over the last few months. I know I can mitigate the 120V 15A limitation by starting by frothing the milk and then once almost done start the brewing process to avoid getting low on steam since the brew boiler has priority.

But, I was thinking, analyzing the internal (from video only, not first hand), that maybe it could be possible to do a small trick.

Based on the fact that my (and most) kitchen counter's outlets are using separate circuit breakers in an outlet I can technically power two 15A appliance from one outlet. I wonder if we could add a second power cord to the machine and feed the two solid state relay that feeds the two boilers separately. Thus using the brew boiler (1200W) + machine electronic + pump on one circuit and the steam boiler (1400W) alone on the other circuit.

Then changing the setting to use both boilers at the same time.

neutro
Posts: 426
Joined: 10 years ago

#2: Post by neutro »

Hi Kalud and welcome to both HB and the Official Canadian Profitec Owner's Club.

I would strongly advise against tinkering with the Pro 700's power supply, unless you are a qualified electrician and / or engineer, and don't mind the resale value hit, losing the machine's CSA certification and any protection against fire from your home insurance.

I think you're over-thinking this, really. The machine, on 120V/15A, has *plenty* of steam power and hot water to be able to pull a shot while steaming. It's a good DB after all. I often pull many shots back to back while stretching milks for serial flat whites when friends come over and the machine recovers faster than I can prepare the next shot.

So my advice is just to wait until you get the machine and see how you like it before planning on taking it apart :)

thm655321
Posts: 185
Joined: 9 years ago

#3: Post by thm655321 »

I may be wrong here but I recall reading on here that the 700 can run at 20 amp with a pid settings change even though that is not listed in the manual.

neutro
Posts: 426
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by neutro »

The cord is only rated for 15 amp though. The PID setting that can be changed is whether the boilers can be on simultaneously. But 120V/20A cannot feed enough power for both boilers on at full draw (they can draw 1400W each). Some mentioned it works but you do so at your own risks, and you could expect your breakers to trip from time to time.

The simultaneous boilers setting is more likely intended for European version which runs on 240V/15A.

Kalud (original poster)
Posts: 7
Joined: 9 years ago

#5: Post by Kalud (original poster) »

Hello and thanks for the welcome :)

I am an electrical engineer and I do much more complicated stuff than that on a daily basis.

I agree you might be right about overthinking a non-issue but I just wanted to explore the idea. I don't mind the warranty (unless the machine doesn't work out of the box), same for the resale value as I tend to use things until they are unusable and this machine should be repairable forever, its one of the reason I chose that one.

I don't want to use the machine in 20A mode, but use one circuit breaker per boiler (1800W peak max available per boiler). Any one has the circuit diagram.

Technically it shouldn't be complicated, my guess is that the hot line of the 120V goes through the solid-state relay then to boiler heater and the neutral is connected directly to the boiler heater. Unless there is a input in the control post relay to read activity (it should use the relay control instead of reading the 120V) then it should work using two different circuit (same split phase) to feed each hot line for the relays. That's the idea.

I just wanted to talk about it, I might not actually do it, even not open the machine once its plumbed in and working. But down the road if I feel it needs a little more power...

By the way, thanks for the Plumbing in the Profitec Pro 700 thread, you gave valuable information, I ordered my pressure regulator and adapter from Chris' Coffee through IDC.

neutro
Posts: 426
Joined: 10 years ago

#6: Post by neutro »

Kalud wrote: I am an electrical engineer and I do much more complicated stuff than that on a daily basis.
Great! Although that won't impress your insurer if a fire starts in your kitchen. :?
same for the resale value as I tend to use things until they are unusable and this machine should be repairable forever, its one of the reason I chose that one.
For the same reason, it should keep a non-negligible resale value for a long time too, which might be much lower if the machine's electrical has been tinkered with.
Any one has the circuit diagram.
Haven't seen it (yet)... The manual, (mechanical) parts diagram and PID settings document is available but I never saw the circuit diagram.

It can't be that complicated as you say, but there is 2 mechanical switches plus the PID controller involved in energizing the two boiler elements. The main switch controls all systems. There is a secondary switch that can turn the steam boiler off. And the PID controls the actual heating of the elements. I have no idea how it's all wired inside.
By the way, thanks for the Plumbing in the Profitec Pro 700 thread, you gave valuable information, I ordered my pressure regulator and adapter from Chris' Coffee through IDC.
Great, although I really think IDC should list the regulator and adapter!

Abnuceals
Posts: 273
Joined: 12 years ago

#7: Post by Abnuceals »

Welcome to both HB and the Official Canadian Profitec Owner's Club
Hi Neutro,
Any idea how many we are in the club ? 8)
LMWDP 389

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HB
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#8: Post by HB »

Kalud wrote:I wonder if we could add a second power cord to the machine and feed the two solid state relay that feeds the two boilers separately.
Unless you regularly exceed a preparation pace of < 60 seconds per drink, there's no point. From the Profitec Pro 700 Review:
HB wrote:As you can see in the photo, there's six cups waiting, which is the longest backlog I had for the morning. Thanks to the practice the cars and coffee event provides, my prep time has gone down from a sloth-like 2 minutes per drink to around 45 seconds. The Pro 700 is comfortable with that pace; the main gating factor is the steam time, which is around 30 seconds for the small cappuccinos I serve (approximately 5 ounces of milk). A top-end commercial espresso machine like the La Marzocco GS/3 would cut that time in half.
Dan Kehn

neutro
Posts: 426
Joined: 10 years ago

#9: Post by neutro »

Abnuceals wrote:Hi Neutro,
Any idea how many we are in the club ? 8)
Not sure exactly but we're a few --- while Canadian HB users are vastly outnumbered, there aren't many outlets in the US selling Profitec (WLL and Clive Coffee come to mind, not sure if other retailers carry the brand). And iDrinkCoffee in Canada pushed the brand quite vigorously here.
HB wrote:Unless you regularly exceed a preparation pace of < 60 seconds per drink, there's no point.
Exactly; and if you do *and* regularly have many drinks to prepare with hard time constraints, perhaps moving to a professional machine would make sense :)

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baldheadracing
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#10: Post by baldheadracing »

Abnuceals wrote:Hi Neutro,
Any idea how many we are in the club ? 8)
The Quebec chapter seems popular! :P
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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