Put an eric's thermo in the 700 last weekend (Thanks Eric...that is nice). Seemed to running a little warm so ended up adjusting the t1 temperature down to around 194-195F on the 700 controller to get a shot temp more in the (average) 200F range. I recall reading that the ET thermo reads 3-4 degrees more than what the PF is seeing.

Don't read much into the numbers as trying to work into dialing in more by taste, but wanted to throw this out to the masses for anyone. I may eventually make the adjustment in the PID offset temp instead of the t1 temp, so the t1 setting display would be closer to the output. Also, if anyone sees an error in the conclusion, I'm interested in learning.

(There was a 700 hot at head temp, but this seems to be along a bit different lines than that so posted separately. Dan, if you see differently feel free to combine.)

if it bothers you too much, try changing the PID's Offset as it seem to be a little on the high side.

Mine was 5c off, although it's a different machine it's not unusual that the machines offset is way off.

although it's not exactly a scace your using, it's still look like you need to look at your flush rutine, it shouldn't go between 202 to 205,

How does the espresso taste? The temperature trading in your video looks very similar to the readings from my machine

Good shots. Not god shots. Good.

I would set the offset to 0 and the brew boiler temperature setting to 226 to 228. That should produce a grouphead temperature reading of ~197 with the machine just at idle.

I see no need for the springs in the portafilters (PF) as I have multiple identical baskets and that allows me to keep the PF in the group. The distribution of the coffee in a basket sans PF is so much easier. Brew using the single spout PF and use the double spout PF as your tamping stand. Needless to say, baskets are very inexpensive: http://www.espressoparts.com/espresso-p ... ter-basket and/or http://www.espressoparts.com/espresso-p ... ess-basket , especially if you buy in quantity.

Do a short 1 second screen flush and brew away. The thermometer should initially jump up to ~ 209 and then settle in for the remainder of the shot about 4-5 degrees above that presented to the coffee. Any change in the PID setpoint requires that the machine (grouphead) be given 15-20 minutes to acclimate it to this change depending, of course, on the magnitude of the change.

Sorry Tom but I don't really see the problem here... You say it's customary to see 4-5F hotter at the group with the thermometer than what hits the PF. The machine is set so it displays 200F. The thermometer indicates 204.5F, so water should hit the coffee at 200F, exactly what the PID controller indicates. Looks like everything is fine to me.

I measured water temperature out of the group using the cup method and an (admittedly not very precise) candy thermometer and it looks to me water is exactly at 200F with the default settings.

I've still wondered if perhaps my measurements aren't right and the water was too hot causing over-extraction, but I still haven't tried lowering the t1 parameter. Did you observe any change going from 200F to 195F in terms of taste? I'm curious about your results.

The only thing that I'm worried about is that the offset is really only right at 200F. The offset method for displaying temperature is not very precise and Eric's suggestion to use an offset of 0 and just see the brew boiler temperature is tempting.

François

OP's Pro700 is set at 194F, not 200F

Brew group temperature is showing 204,5F when a shot is pulled, that correspond to around 200F in brewing temperature, so the offset is not correct.

226-228F sounds a little high, although mine is a different machine it is set at 220F to get a brewing temperature of 200F.

QM factory setting where 228F to achieve a 200F brewing temperature, but I get allot less heatloss in my home.

but no offset dos not display the correct brewing temperature at wider temperature range .

Ok so the 204.5F at thermometer / circa 200F on the coffee puck is obtained with a 194F setting on the PID with the default offset?

That's very interesting. I think I need to invest in a digital thermometer to test temperature out of the group. I wonder if I'm just struggling because water temperature is too high on my Pro 700. I should try 194F at least just to see what it does to the coffee.

That is why you should either forget the nr. the display shows you (as it is rarely correct) and go by taste or you should change the PID offset.

The latter is mostly for people who hasen't developed the tasting skills yet, to determine if they are brewing at the right temperature.

this also explain why some of you haven't felt the need to flush/warm up the group prior to a shot.

Bikeminded wrote:Put an eric's thermo in the 700 last weekend (Thanks Eric...that is nice). Seemed to running a little warm so ended up adjusting the t1 temperature down to around 194-195F on the 700 controller to get a shot temp more in the (average) 200F range. I recall reading that the ET thermo reads 3-4 degrees more than what the PF is seeing.

What scale is that?