caldwa wrote:I wish they had a second pressure gauge as well, but after looking at the internal pictures of the Pro300 I couldn't see where they could fit one in the current design. I've seen E61 portafilters with built-in pressure gauges, but ~$70 is a lot for something one would seldom use. I was thinking of perhaps asking Clive to set my machine to 8-8.5bar before they ship it to me.

Good point, next time I head up to Portland I may just bring the machine and go into Clive.

Fausto wrote:I would be interested to check this on my machine. I wish they could have fit a second gauge on the machine somewhere. What are you using to check it?

Nothing special. Just an oil-filled gauge attached to the spout thread of a basketless PF with a couple of small brass fittings from a plumbing supply.

Instead of a second pressure gauge in the Pro 300, I'd prefer a single brew pressure gauge and then have the PID control the temp of both boilers (making a steam pressure gauge redundant).

coffeinator wrote:That's great looking combo! (I also have a Pro 300 - for 2 weeks now - and an F4E setup).

How do you find the steam generating power on the Pro 300? I also just bought mine from IDC and, while I'm quite satisfied overall, was expecting a little more in the way of steam. I was wondering if this might be a bit of a minor "issue" with the 1800W rated machines (that IDC stocks) vs the original 2400W version. I adjsuted the pressurestat so that the steam boiler heater comes on at about 1.1 bar and shuts off between 1.3-1.4 bar to try and get a little more steam power out of it (out of the box, the steam heater came on at about 0.9 bar and turned off at around 1.1).

Also, out of the box, I measured 10 bar at the portafilter and so adjusted the OPV valve to give a bit less brew pressure (ie, about 9 bar). Have you checked the brew pressure?

How do you like the grinder?

I'll answer but be advised that it's my first prosumer machine, coming from a BES870XL...

I find the steam less than expected for a typical prosumer machine but okay for the niche that the Pro 300 aims for. Understandably because of the design changes that were needed to even make this model, you have to expect less power because of the smaller boilers (I might be wrong here) and the lesser wattaged version. But, still capable and worth the extra time to gain a DB at this price.

How does your pressurestat change work for you? Worth it?

I haven't checked brew pressure but isn't 10 bar initial pressure normal and then it should drop to 9 during the cycle?

Oh and I love the grinder!

Don't forget, I'm from Atlantic Canada living in the Tim Hortons capital (Moncton) and we have ABSOLUTELY no access to big city stores like Clive, Chris, etc. I'm a proud self-trained internet barista. We have to buy everything online without even seeing anything close to prosumer first. My Barista Express was probably the biggest machine available everywhere.

My friends think I'm crazy. But they still come in for coffee. ; -)

I've actually just moved to the Maritimes myself (I used to live not too far from the IDK store in Ontario).

The reason why I was a bit underwhelmed with the steam was because I came from a Rancilio Silvia. I PIDed the Silvia (controlled both brew mode and steam mode) and with that upgrade, I don't find that the Pro 300 has all that much more steam power (though it does have a little more). This is a bit surprising as the boiler on the Silvia is about half the size of the steam boiler on the pro 300. However, the heating element power on the smaller Silvia boiler is a bit more (I think about 930W vs 800W on the Pro 300) so maybe the original 1200W heaters in the original Pro 300 really does make a difference? If the boiler on the Pro 300 was controlled by the PID, then you might be able to get a rough idea of the rate of temperature decrease while steaming for comparisons (I don't think the pressure gauge is precise enough for this)... Oh well.

Increasing the pressure stat did provide a bit more steam power. It was noticeable, but not night and day. But I'd say worth it as it just requires removing the top lid and turning a screw. However, if your pressurestat is set to turn off the heater at above 1.2 bars as it is, then it probably won't help much as it probably shouldn't be set to turn off much passed 1.4 bar.

Not sure about 10 bar being normal or optimal for an initial pressure. The reading I've done seems to indicate you want pressure to ramp up to about 9 bar (or slightly less, depending on who you ask) and not go beyond. The gauge I made is a completely sealed system, whereas in use, with water flowing through the puck, you would only probably achieve a pressure that was a little lower. I've set the OPV so that my blinded gauge reads just over 9 bar. In actual use, I estimate pressure would ramp up to about 8.5 or so bar and then perhaps drop a negligible bit, which seems about right.

The F4E really is a gem of a grinder (once you figure out how to set up the excellent electronic control system). As I've wrote in another post on this forum, I think some might scoff at the F4E because it only has 58mm burrs. But, at least in my experience, the grind quality is as good as any 64mm I've tried. Including Mazzers. Though larger/more aggressively-toothed 64mm burrs will get your dose out faster - not so important for casual home use (but you should see how fast the Fiorenzato F64e EVO doses - about 2.5x as fast as the F4E!).

coffeinator wrote:I've actually just moved to the Maritimes myself (I used to live not too far from the IDK store in Ontario).

Really? Where to?

I'm now a Haligooglian. (Did I get that right? )

If you frequently Google in Halifax, you got it right.

Would you guys choose the Profitec Pro 300 over the newly released Rocket Espresso Appartamento? Both are basically the same price here in Sweden.
Profitec is better on practically everything, quality-wise, but my main gripe with it is that it's so damn ugly

I should note that money, within reasonable levels, isn't an issue here so I'm searching for a good quality machine.
The issue is counter-top space. I have basically a 29.5cm space to fit the machine (but that would probably scratch the sides of the machine if the machine is that width), so Profitec's at 25.5cm and Rocket's at 27.5cm both allows for some spacing on the sides.

The question is which of them is the best (or perhaps neither and I should instead consider some other machine that I don't know about)?

Anyone?

Some general concerns with the Appartamento is:
- Non-insulated copper boiler instead of insulated stainless steel
- No shot-timer PID
- Somehow feels not quite as good quality of the build compared to the Pro 300

Some general concerns with the Pro 300
- No E61 brew group
- Dual boiler in a very compact package = seems cramped
- Fragile steam- & hot water knobs
- Ugly (but smaller in width which is nice)