Greetings all...

I recently (this past Monday) received a new Andreja Premium (upgraded from Silvia). It worked fine on Monday (I thought at the time) but it wouldn't work Tuesday morning. In talking to the techs and doing some troubleshooting it seemed to be the heating element which they sent and I received today. When I pulled the old one out it was burnt/broken right at the top. I installed the new one, hooked it up, went through the new machine start up procedure again, and got heat (and therefore boiler pressure).

Here's where the trouble (maybe) starts. When I open up the hot water wand I get a bunch of black water...probably not a good thing. What bothers me even more, not having had an HX machine before and not fully understanding what does what for certain, is that I can run the hot water wand until I have no more water coming out but it doesn't seem like there's anything happening (like the pump running) to refill the boiler. When I run out of water am I not really pulling the level down far enough to need a boiler refill?

When I turn off the machine (for maybe for 15 or 20 minutes) and come back and turn it on again the pump starts running then. In fact a few minutes ago it ran for longer than the 30 seconds the instructions say to let it run so I turned it off and waited the recommended 5 minutes. I just went back and turned it on again and the pump started up once again; this time it shut off after 15 seconds or so (so I assume the boiler is full at that point).

I'm really worried that if the boiler level falls that the machine is not refilling as it should. Obviously this would likely lead to the burnt heating element. What is it that controls the boiler filling procedure? And how do I know if it's working? As I understand it lifting the brew lever only runs water through the HX, correct?

I'm so frustrated! I'm ready to ship the darn thing back and fix my Silvia and of course it's Friday so I won't be able to contact the techs until Monday. I'm hoping someone here has some thoughts (good or bad) about what's working and what isn't. I'd sure like to convince my wife this weekend that spending this much for an espresso machine wasn't really a stupid idea!

Thanks in advance for all your comments, ideas, and guidance.

The black gunk is the byproduct of the blown heating element. The fix is to flush the boiler several times. I would take the aerator off the water tap so you don't get any gunk stuck on the screen.

The delay in the boiler refill is somewhat concerning. The amount of water dispensed before the refill kicks in varies with the size of the boiler. With a 1.5-2 liter boiler, it should kick in after about a cup has been dispensed from the water tap.

OK ... Since nobody stepped in yet, I'll give my opinion before you think no one cares.



My initial thoughts...

1. The black water is probably associated with the burnt element.

2. The cause of your burnt element may be due to your water level being too low which is monitored by the water level autofill sensor, and as you know, a dry element can tend to toast.

3. Due to the fill time, maybe something funky is going on with the pump where it has low output and can't catch up with filling the boiler, and that is toasting the element rather than a displaced autofill sensor.

Hopefully someone like Dan K. will jump in since he knows these machines inside out and has diagrams and pics to help. Having said that, I would personally send the thing back and have Chris coffee deal with it. I know it's frustrating, but once you're machine is running properly (or you get a new one), you will be quite happy with the machine (I hope).

Matt

Apologies to Dave ... I didn't realize you posted

Ok..thanks guys. After I typed the original message I wandered back into the kitchen and sorta stared at the machine. The light went on! Umm...the one in my head and I came to the conclusion that y'all just posted...I had bits of the old element in there. That surprised me because the burned out element really doesn't look that bad...it sure didn't "blow up" like the element in my Silvia which left a whole pile of stuff. Anyway I let the machine cool then I straddled the sink with it, removed the heating element again, took the sprayer attachment off the end of the hose and stuck it up inside the boiler from underneath. I made a heck of a mess (the wife went out to dinner tonight thank goodness) but I got the boiler all cleaned out.

Once I got everything put back together I went through the new machine routine again which fills the boiler and the HX. Once it came back up to temp I tried drawing off some hot water (mostly to make sure the nasty stuff was gone) and right after I finished the pump came on and refilled the boiler. What the heck? I tried it a few more times and tried the steam wand and the pump would come on once in awhile and fill the boiler. But why did it start working? I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth but I'd sure hate to have problems later. I still want to learn how the autofill system works at some point.

I made a nice decaf cappa as my reward (mostly for cleaning the kitchen before I got killed) still pondering just what had happened and why the original element died in the first place. I'm still a bit skeptical of the whole situation but at least it's working at the moment. We'll see how it does in the morning for my usual 3 double lattes (3 people! Not just me!).

The upside is that I know the machine much better now, I know how to get the case off, I got the boiler pressure set and I got the brew pressure dialed down. Guess is wasn't all bad.

Thanks for the replies...we'll see how she behaves.

Matthew Brinski wrote:Apologies to Dave ... I didn't realize you posted

No problem my friend.

I just had a thought. The water level sensor is basically a metal rod with a wire attached to the level box. That rod creates a circuit when it is submerged in water. With the boiler film, the rod may be coated and preventing proper contact with the water. You could try loosening the nut that holds the rod on top of the boiler (after you unplug the machine) and pull the rod up and out, wipe it off and reinstall.

cannonfodder wrote:No problem my friend.

I just had a thought. The water level sensor is basically a metal rod with a wire attached to the level box. That rod creates a circuit when it is submerged in water. With the boiler film, the rod may be coated and preventing proper contact with the water. You could try loosening the nut that holds the rod on top of the boiler (after you unplug the machine) and pull the rod up and out, wipe it off and reinstall.

Ah ha! I wonder if that's why it seemed to start working after I cleaned out the boiler really well? Makes better sense than ghosts! I still do wonder why the original element burned right at the top? It seems like the boiler level must have been down at some point. The machine wasn't brand-new, never used when I bought it; they had it on special after it had been "used a couple of weeks". Still, the AP has a heater element shut down if the reservoir is too low. Questions, questions!

Thanks Dave!

erics wrote:While defering to any "instructions" you might receive from the place of purchase, here's what I would do. Unplug the machine and set it up to, once again, remove the heating element.

As best you can, save all of the water that drains from the boiler when you remove the element. Measure the length of the element that represents how much it sticks up into the boiler. Count on using a 2 quart pan as the boiler is listed at 1.6 liters (54.1 ounces). Whether this 1.6 liters takes into account the space taken up by the hx is not known to me. The amount of water that drains/spills out should be around 75% of the 54.1 ounces or a touch over 40 ounces.

With the new heating element out, direct your faucet spray nozzle into the boiler to "flush it out", draining the spillage onto a light colored towel. Rinse the boiler clean. Now remove the anti-syphon (vacuuum breaker) valve and measure the internal height of the boiler - about 8 inches? Keep the anti-syphon valve out for the time being and reassemble the machine with the heating element very loose. DO NOT connect the heating element's electrical connections. Fill the water reservoir and run the pump for about 5-10 seconds. Let this water drain from the boiler and then tighten up the heating element. Now the fun begins.

With the heating element still disconnected, turn the machine on and let the pump run for exactly 30 seconds. Measure the level of the water in the boiler through the anti-syphon valve hole and write this down. As per the machine's instructions, wait five minutes. Turn the machine on and let the pump run for another 30 seconds. Measure the water level and wait another five minutes. Turn the machine on and the pump should only run this time for about 15 seconds. Measure the level again and compare this final reading to the heating element length. You should be about 1 to 1-1/4 inches above the heating element - my guess.

Re-install the anti-syphon valve, connect up the heating element and you should be good to go.

Just make sure you unplug the machine anytime you are making any electrical connections or cleaning up any water spillage.

Thanks Eric!

Do I get a diploma or certificate when I'm done?

Great instructions by the way. I didn't measure the water that came out of the boiler; it's such a mess when you extract the heating element from the bottom of the boiler that I was really just trying not to flood the kitchen. I did do the second part with regard to thoroughly flushing the boiler (after the first go-round that is).

I'll have to take a look at the anti-siphon valve (I'm assuming it's the "thingy" on top of the boiler with the little shaft sticking out of it down inside a well?) and bring home the correct tools to remove it.

The only part that I don't follow really is reinserting the heating element very loose then running the pump for 5-10 seconds and letting that water drain. To where? Remove the element again so it drains out the bottom? And what does this accomplish (just 'cause I'm curious)?

Thanks so much for all the info.

Now...I want one of your thermometer kits for the E61. Do you have them in stock?