Hi Eric,

Thanks once again. I'm beginning to understand how the systems work...a little.

I'll definitely do some checking; last night (before I reopened the boiler and flushed it all out) I ran more than a full cup of water out the hot water wand and the pump didn't kick on...and I did shut the machine off right away. I just finished making 3 lattes (shorties) and the pump came on while steaming the third one; so far it seems to be working but I'll try drawing some hot water off into a Pyrex measuring cup and see when the pump starts...thanks for the info on Anita.

I thought I'd post a follow up since when I'm reading other threads of this nature and there's no conclusion I'm always curious as to how things turned out.

It turns out that the burned out heating element was the symptom rather than the problem, which I suspected when I removed the old one and it was burned out right at the very top. The culprit seems to be the water level/autofill probe although it didn't present itself clearly. When the machine is first turned on (cold) the pump runs and fills the boiler without a problem but if I draw off hot water (or lots of steam) the boiler doesn't seem to refill properly (I wasn't certain though as this is a new class of machine to me (the HX) and I'm just not familiar with what was supposed to happen). So it was one of those things that seemed to work and then seemed to not; it took a couple of daily cycles to nail down the specific behaviour.

Apparently the insulating sleeve on the water level probe is insulating the probe properly (from the boiler case) when it's cold but failing when the boiler is hot. That failure allows the probe to ground to the boiler case which means it never "senses" when the water level drops and doesn't energize the pump. This diagnosis is from the techs at Chris' Coffee, while I understand the explanation quite well I wasn't familiar enough with the machine's systems to get this on my own (I didn't know how the refill system sensed a low water situation).

Cannonfodder wrote:I just had a thought. The water level sensor is basically a metal rod with a wire attached to the level box. That rod creates a circuit when it is submerged in water. With the boiler film, the rod may be coated and preventing proper contact with the water. You could try loosening the nut that holds the rod on top of the boiler (after you unplug the machine) and pull the rod up and out, wipe it off and reinstall.

He was darn close! As the tech explained to me, as soon as the water touches the end of the probe it grounds out the circuit (which shuts the pump off). I suspect a film on the probe that insulated it well enough to prevent proper contact with the water would cause the pump to run continuously (if I understand the system properly) rather than to never run. Which isn't a criticism of CF at all! The purpose of this post is to help someone else that might see the same problems arise and I'm just passing on what I'm learning from the techs, CF and EricS and summarizing it here.

This thread also might look like I've had all sorts of trouble with the Quick Mill Andreja Premium and the conclusion might be less than flattering; I don't feel that's the case. I will admit to it being frustrating because:

1) It's a new machine (and the expectation is that it's "perfect" and won't need repair)
2) I didn't have a clue how these machines really worked until I read all the good stuff here and talked to the techs (so I'm a noob!)
3) It's just a darn long way from NY to WA and it's taking some time for discussions (3 hour time difference) and parts to go back and forth

In reality I only have one problem on the machine and that's a faulty water level probe; the heating element I had to replace first was a result of that and not the problem in and of itself. No one could know of the water probe problem until the heating element was replaced since without the boiler heating the probe doesn't fail. It's sort of like replacing a light bulb to see if the lamp works; it's just part of the troubleshooting procedure. I hadn't intended to become so intimate with my Andreja and wander into "techdom" but in the long run I'm much more comfortable with Andreja's operation now and I also know if I need to make repairs in the future I can do it.

While the expectation is that a new machine is "perfect" the reason that things have warranties is because they aren't all perfect. None of us ever want to the the "one" that ends up with a problem but such is life. The true nature of a vendor comes out when the chips are down and there is a problem. Based on that I'd give the folks at Chris' Coffee two thumbs up so far for their efforts to get my machine back up and running. If I don't experience a rash of other problems with the Andreja Premium then I'll just chalk this up to a faulty component (or factory installation) and move on to making (hopefully) great espresso.

If you over tighten the probe lock nut, you could cut through the plastic insulating sheath. The lock nut is basically a compression fitting, tighten it too much and the compression ring will cut right through creating a short.

You are correct as to the operation of the probe. I was unsure if all machines use a NO or NC (normally open or normally closed) circuit so I left it rather generic. It appears that NC is the standard, or at least all the machines I have used were that way.

When it comes time to descale the machine, you can force the boiler to overfill with descale solution by either removing the wire from the level probe, or put an externally mounted switch on the level wire. With the switch, you don't have to pull the case, just flip it to override the sensor and over fill the boiler.

At any rate, I am glad to hear your issue has been resolved. Now the hard part starts, learning to master that new shiny box.

Thanks for that CF. I'm glad you explained the compression fitting; hopefully it would have been obvious when the new probe shows up (it should get shipped today) but knowing ahead of time makes things so much easier.

Good point on the NC/NO circuit; I was specifically referring to the Andreja as I currently understand it but obviously it could be different in other machines...I sure don't want to mislead anyone.

I sure have thought about how a sight glass and a boiler fill switch would let you know exactly where things stand. I think I'm just a little gun shy about the autofill thing at the moment but I'm sure there are thousands (tens of thousands?) out there working just fine. I'll feel alot better when the new probe goes in, it does a few cycles, and behaves as the techs have explained its operation to me.

The general rule of thumb with compression fittings, finger tight plus a quarter turn with a wrench. If it leaks, give it another quarter turn, after you turn it off and unplug it.

cannonfodder wrote:When it comes time to descale the machine, you can force the boiler to overfill with descale solution by either removing the wire from the level probe, or put an externally mounted switch on the level wire. With the switch, you don't have to pull the case, just flip it to override the sensor and over fill the boiler.

If adding a switch, use a momentary that you must hold. You don't want the phone to ring, chat with the main squeeze for 20 minutes and come back to a toasted Ulka!

Regarding descaling an HX, this post maybe useful:
Simplified HX Descale

I never thought about using a momentary switch, darn good idea. You also don't have to worry about curious little fingers flipping a switch while you are not looking.

Well...the water level probe showed up yesterday and after digging up the correct tools I got the new one installed. And it works. I looked at the one that came out and there weren't any obvious problems but it didn't work and the new one does...had to have been something going on there.

That's a pretty strange compression fitting; I'm more used to the ring around the tube that gets squeezed kind. This is more of a nylon (some plastic looking material at any rate) sleeve with a mushroom shape part way up that gets compressed by the upper nut. I tried the gentle approach but water/steam came up past the probe so I tweaked a bit more...still water/steam came up the probe so I just little by little snuck up on the thing till it quit spitting; that was still a very easy wrench turn.

Sure is nice to steam a couple of lattes or draw a little water and hear the boiler fill; I wish I had known that's what it was supposed to do from the beginning. I'm hoping the new heating element wasn't damaged between the time it went in but before I figured out the autofill wasn't working.

On the descale thing...how does one know when that should be done? The only thing that goes in the machine is Aquafina bottled water; does that help from getting the scale or doesn't it make any difference. One of the reasons I didn't go with a plumbed in machine is because we can't use the well water here for anything but bathing; all cooking and drinking water is bottled. I have considered getting a 5-gallon container of water and hooking the Andreja up to it. It's a water hog and it's going to be expensive if I keep having to dump so much bottled water in the reservoir; if I can get it in bulk it should be cheaper.

cannonfodder wrote:You also don't have to worry about curious little fingers flipping a switch while you are not looking.

Never had a problem since I started keeping a collection of fingers next to the cups.