Over my head wearing a weight belt: Brugnetti Simona Top rebuild

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
Glenn T
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 years ago

#1: Post by Glenn T »

I saw what looked like a great deal on ebay for a used/broken Brugnetti Simona Top. Having studied The Brugnetti Simona Project, I thought I was all set! Granted, I've never rebuilt an espresso machine before, but I had a well-documented guide along with American tech & parts support.

Famous last words, "I'm an engineer. I should be able to figure this out!" Granted, I knew I was in over my head, but I trusted the life guards to throw me a line if I thrashed around too much.

Unfortunately, I did not count on Brugnetti CLOSING their American subsidiary. In engineering terms, this is what's known as an "Ah sh__!" moment. All projects have "Ah sh__" moments, and that's why we use safety factors and contingencies. I just never expected mine to hit before the project even started! Rather than simply being in over my head and being forced to sink or swim, I'm in over my head wearing a weight belt!

I expect to receive the machine on Tuesday. Despite looking for the past week, I have failed to find a copy of the manual. Brugnetti Italy referred me to Viazza Coffee, who happens to occupy the same address as the old Brugnetti USA. When asked for product documentation and parts availability for the Simona Top, I got this reply:
We are sorry to inform you that we do not sell the Brugnetti Simona home espresso. We sell only the commercial Brugnetti machines. Also - to our knowledge - no Simona has been sold in the US since 2001. As this machine is out of production it will not be easy to find parts for it.
With best regards,
Viazza Coffee, LLC
John Vintage
Does anybody have a lead on an electronic copy of the manual for the Brugnetti Simona Top? I sent a message to jamhat, the guy who did the last rebuild, but he hasn't posted on the site for 1-1/2 years!

Since they have no American parts support, I expect I'll be doing a LOT of measuring and crossing of alternate parts from other suppliers. I hope some of the espresso parts suppliers have simple methods to cross part numbers based on dimensions & specs. I'd MUCH rather support our parts community than generic pump, heater and o-ring suppliers.

The good news amidst the bad is that I'll have a start on generic parts crossing when others run into parts availability issues. I have no idea how many parts are common vs. customized to retain spare parts margins, but I'm sure I'll find out soon! Since copper tubing is so easy to bend and Swagelok parts are easy to source, I'll have some adaptability, even if I wind up using Unistrut and similar products to mount key parts.

FIRST PROJECT LESSON:
NEVER buy an espresso machine for rebuilding without verifying parts & documentation support BEFORE bidding or making an offer!

Of course, THIS machine will be very well documented by the time I complete the project!

jmc
Posts: 160
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by jmc »

Wait till you get the machine before you start worrying.
Most manuals for coffee machines are useless for anything but the most basic user info so the lack of one shouldn't hold you back. Also, these machines are mechanically / electrically very basic and providing there has been no physical trauma inflicted on it, chances are that it will be, for an engineer, fairly simple.
There are plenty of knowledgeable people here to give advice if needed.

John
John

User avatar
Randy G.
Posts: 5340
Joined: 17 years ago

#3: Post by Randy G. »

Glenn T wrote:Unfortunately, I did not count on Brugnetti CLOSING their American subsidiary. In engineering terms, this is what's known as an "Ah sh__!" moment.


:wink:
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

Alan Frew
Posts: 661
Joined: 16 years ago

#4: Post by Alan Frew »

I tested a Simona top several years ago and the "manual" was a couple of pages of disclaimers, button/tank/drip tray descriptions, control pad setup and basic troubleshooting. There certainly wasn't a parts list or working circuit diagram, and if you're looking for an actual repair manual, AFAIK it doesn't exist.

At best you <might> find an exploded drawing with internal (to Brugnetti) parts numbering, but I doubt it. I wouldn't worry too much, from memory the Top was built out of generic Brugnetti bits, and shares most of the other parts with other Italian machines.

Alan

Alan Frew
Posts: 661
Joined: 16 years ago

#5: Post by Alan Frew »

Managed to find some of the pictures I took. Group is standard Brugnetti (see http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/aurora/br ... re-parts-1 ), boiler furniture is standard Italian parts bin, Ulka pump, the only troublesome bits are likely to be the switchpad and the brain box. Boiler even has a drain plug.

Alan





Glenn T (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 years ago

#6: Post by Glenn T (original poster) »

First Looks


Here it is before destroying--er, rebuilding--anything. I can already picture it with a PF handle & steam knob made out of ironwood or some other wood with bright reds and dark black grains! Custom Wood for your Espresso Machine


I thought of Dave's work when I tried to replace the missing the cap for the pour over. Since Brugenetti isn't supporting parts in the USA, I knew they would not supply a new cap. Then I thought of a cork plug, but rejected the tacky solution because I figured it would create a vacuum if it sealed. Then I remembered Dave made some grinder caps, and this is a very similar requirement!


(Cocobolo)

(Ironwood)

(Kingwood)

It help keep me motivated when I can visualize a beautiful end result!

Edit:
Does anybody know why it has a hole w/ grommet on the back? It looks to me like they made it easier to install a plumb-in kit.

DJF
Posts: 787
Joined: 14 years ago

#7: Post by DJF »

That model does not have a brain box or electronics as such so there is no need to worry. It is a very simple machine to be a fixer upper.

Get to it!
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I don't think so."

Glenn T (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 years ago

#8: Post by Glenn T (original poster) »

The Magic Smoke Test

Many times, I've experienced the magic that makes electronic devices work leaves after I see the "magic smoke". Unfortunately, the wizards who make them never explain how they get the magic smoke INTO them. Fortunately, espresso machines use very little magic smoke. Since I have little idea how to troubleshoot it, I figured I would plug in and throw the switches to see if the magic smoke escaped.

To my surprise both switches and the heater light illuminated! Since heating elements could be tricky to source, I was delighted when the boiler got hot to the touch.

The pump, however, made an incredible racket while priming. Something was working right when I got steam out of the wand. Nothing would pump out the grouphead, though. Since I don't know which position does what on the middle switch, I couldn't see any difference when I changed it to on/off. I looked, sniffed and touched, trying to figure out why no water flowed out the grouphead even though steam came out the wand.

Pop! All the lights went out in the (detached) garage. I knew THAT was a bad sign, even if not as bad as the magic smoke loss.

With only a few smacks to the shins, I made my way over to the GFI and popped it. Ah, illumination... right up until the second coming of Pop! This time it would not reset! I went inside the house and looked that the circuit breaker box, but none of the switches looked tripped. Undeterred, I reset every clock in the house trying in vain to find the popped circuit. Time to call it a night.

With a fresh day and a DMM, I decided to check the GFI, right after I read up on how they work and are supposed to be wired. Naturally, the DMM had a dead battery and no documentation. A quick bit of surfing yielded zip. Common sense told me to pull out a screwdriver and start disassembling until I found something replaceable. After reassembling the DMM, the probes couldn't hit one side of the GFI without removing the darned thing. Zero volts on all leads was NOT a good sign, especially when outlets on other circuits read just fine. After creating a lot of blinking 12:00, I still couldn't figure out why the GFI remained tripped.

It turns out the garage was rewired when they brought 220VAC in to run the pool pump. While none of those circuits were tripped, I noticed a SECOND GFI. Yep, the old dual GFI trick.

Now that everything had thoroughly cooled, I figured it was OK to turn on the beast again to see why I couldn't get water to flow out the grouphead. I put my finger over the inlet line and felt a little suction, but it certainly wasn't very impressive for a pump that's supposed to be able to put out more than 150 psi! Eventually, I noticed a small flow of water inside the case. Now, as a general rule, water should not flow out of ANYTHING on the INSIDE of an espresso machine.

Ah-hah!

Glenn T (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 years ago

#9: Post by Glenn T (original poster) »

Time to Figure Out the Plumbing!

Now, for the part I love the mechanical engineering.

I labeled the top view of the plumbing, including the broken tube fitting. It provides a good understanding of the primary water flow paths.


[*]What is that strange device that uses magic smoke to manage the flow of water into the boiler?
[*]That looks like the kind of part that is subject to loss of magic smoke. How would I find a cross-over part with equivalent function (tubing is easy to bend/beat to fit).
[*]Where is the OPV?
[*]How do I adjust the OPV if I ever find it?
[*]Since the same pump is supposed to fill the boiler at low pressure while injecting water through the HX unit at roughly 8X the pressure, how the heck does it regulate boiler inlet pressure vs. HX/grouphead pressure? The lines are teed off of each other. Of course, the magic device may also reduce boiler inlet pressure, but it looks too small for a pressure regulator.


  • What does the sensor do?
    What information do I need to collect from it to figure out a cross-over part number so I can figure out how to replace it if/when it fails?

[*]Any pointers on how to break the heater loose from all that corrosion without damaging the heater or the boiler? I expect dipping the heater into boiling citric acid is "contra-indicated".
[*]What information do I need to collect to cross over the heater to a domestically-available model?

=========================

Boneheaded Engineering?

Just because I was dumb enough to buy a machine without domestic support, it does not mean I performed NO research on it. The main complaint about the Simona Top was the need to remove wires to pull out the water reservoir.


I looked at it and couldn't believe it. How the hell is some one supposed to slide the end connector off the nut without water leaking out of the reservoir? Now, THAT is some bone headed engineering!

A bit of background about my dad. He spent decades designing the drive trains and lube oil systems for nuclear submarines aircraft carriers and other naval vessels. He knows heavy duty mechanical engineering. So, I grabbed him to come out and look at the internals of the machine. In my enthusiasm, I exclaimed, "Check it out! It's all mechanical engineering with almost no electronics, and the Italians only made one boneheaded engineering mistake!"

Upon gazing at this beautiful piece of heat transfer and fluid displacement engineering technology, he shook his head. "That's a lot of work for a cup of coffee."

"It's good, solid engineering, though. Except for one thing. Can you believe those dumb Italians? Imagine loosening up the connector just to take off the wiring when you want to clean the water reservoir. How dumb can you get?

He bent over, looked at the machine, looked at me, reached over, and then he slid the connector right off the tab. "Boneheaded?"

I had a Fox News viewer moment. We all have them, regardless of where we get our news. We do it when we repeat something we heard that sounded right but never really took the time to think about it. Upon reflection, we realize we just looked like an idiot for parroting something idiot because we never made the mental effort to think about what we were told!


I was all set to change out the wiring to include some automotive grade quick disconnects. Looking at how easy it is to pull off the tabs, I wonder why the reviewers were so put out by them. They already had to remove the cover to access the tank. What's the big deal about pulling off the connectors too?

Next!

Before I go pulling off any wires, I want to make damned-sure that I know which wires go where! My plan is to take a bunch of pictures and edit them with location codes, starting from the top left, working across, then down. I'll label each wire with source & destination. If some one else out there knows a smarter way to identify the wiring, please share the wisdom of your superior experience!

I found a cool product called Kableflags from Down Under. It should be neat and is removable.

AngerManagement
Posts: 167
Joined: 18 years ago

#10: Post by AngerManagement »

As to OPV see 3rd picture of AF post... That beast above the pump...

That brass fitting leaving the T piece and connected to the Si tubing.
Ability is nothing without opportunity. - Napoleon Bonaparte

Post Reply