For those who'd like to know my thoughts on the difference between my 25 year old Cimbali JR and my almost new Rancilio s-20.

If i were on an island with one outlet and one machine. i'd leave the new Rancilio on the curb for someone to pick up.And get it out of my sight.
I bought the machine used and for a great deal. I'd had some drip tray problems with the jr due to a crack and i always wanted a rotary pump and a
really clean look so i purchased from a friend who owns a coffee house.

Bottom line .. After using the s20 for a month and throwing away 4-5 shots a day on bad shots, this week i noticed a pressure release valve that was hissing and driving me nuts. i removed it and low and behold some idiot who put the machine together had put too much pressure on the secure nut that
they put on these prv's. Thus the damn thing was bent and wouldn't hold a tight seal so it hissed and progressively so.

Well, i re-hooked up my jr while repairing and amazing it was like reuniting with an old friend.. The first shot i poured was average for the junior and
a hundred times the shot of any shot i'd poured with the Rancilio. Amazingly
the taste, was totally different and the perfect stream from the Naked portafilter marbled up in the cup. Finally i realized that this new rotary pump
Rancilio looks great and was silent and smooth but couldn't pour a shot to save it's life. I worked on every grind and tamp i could think of and the portafilter leaked during the shot. A problem i've experienced with naked portafilters.

The dream machine that i'm looking at down the road is the gs3 but until that point i'm keeping the jr and selling the rancilio as soon as i received the newly ordered prv.

The jr. is designed in an extremely user friendly way and though after a while it's really boring unlike a gs3, I think it's fair to say that any model used or new regarding a junior is a no brainer. There are basically 20-30
one head machines 90 percent of them are almost the same exact product. Virtually interchangeable machines
including the e 61 head and a sirai pressure stat. Other than the housing and
minute options they all produce the same product. The grouphead for the junior is massive and i believe is the trick to amazing shots almost every time. I have thought of buying one of the better e61 machines and everytime i knew that ultimately i'd be comparing them to an old jr. It for me dramatically limits the choices that i have to buy a new machine. Which basically include Faema, Cimbali, lamarzocco, and i saw a 4 head la pavoni that was all manual and had a larger head than the 61 but produced a great shot.

So back to the drawing board. With my choices excluding the e 61 heads and being partial to the gs3, all i have to do is save up 6,000 dollars. Note i also really liked the Faema jubilee. The elektra is beautiful but
i understand they don't produce as good a shot as the cimbali. This offered to me by a coffee pro that i trust. He said they are beautiful but not great.

I am curious how many coffee enthusiast have experienced the same dilemma?

thanks,, Michael

Cimbali makes excellent quality machines that are built like tanks and are easy to work on. Once you get the hang of how to use them, they are easy to pull great shots on, given a top notch grinder. The old straightforward vibe pump machines with sight glasses are no longer made, but they are lifetime machines if you can get your hands on one.

ken

RE commercial machines: It's always emphasized that we're using these machines "off-label"; they're simply not designed and engineered for a couple shots a day and changing coffees/technique frequently.

Give these machines their 50 (or so) shots/minute, a fixed blend (or two) with the matching technique, and they'll deliver (I hope!). For us, we adapt to them or adapt them to us (mod, mod, mod).

I don't believe better (bigger, more expensive, better technology) machines will always make the home barista's life easier nor give them better espresso. I'd love to see a list of machines that "Just Works" for us extreme enthusiast home baristas.

I own a junior so I'm pretty biased toward it, but I bet the S20 can do a great job as well. It sounds like yours needs a bit of TLC/repair to start with. After that, dialing in temps and pressures are crucial - from what I read you just adjusted grind & tamp. As you said, there isn't much difference between the vast majority of HX's (all e61) so this one should do fine.

i have that same era cimbali jr/r .. i love it, i pull two long (water only) shots to cool it down jst prior to pulling my shot, .. it pulls as well as anything we have at work