My money is on the three-way solenoid valve. The OPV example is very similar to mine (I don't have the "anti-aeration" line) but it is downstream from the 3WSV, so if that was functioning correctly, there would be no pressure back against the OPV.

If there is dirt or a defect in the 3WSV, though, it will leave the boiler and HX coil "connected" and perhaps cause my problem. It could also help explain the long "run up" in the pump pressure in the morning.

I've contacted the distributor to check on spares, as I'd rather do a quick parts swap than have the machine down for any time (OK - I'm addicted!). Once I have a new OPV and 3WSV, I will report back on the effects of the swap and any other findings. In the meantime, I will try the suggested water replenishment timing, but I suspect this is not very repeatable. Since it's a HX machine, the pump can either supply water to the grouphead OR replenish the tank (depending on the position of the aforementioned 3WSV).

If my understanding is correct, you can empty the reservoir "making coffe" as the pump is busy pushing water through the grouphead. It is only *after* the solenoid closes off the HX that the signal to feed the boiler is actioned.

Or I am confused? - thanks for all the suggestions

BTW - as a bit of introduction - I'm a Canadian, married to an American, living in London, UK. As my interest in coffee has grown, I have scaled (no pun intended) my equipment up, but I feel a bit restricted by the knowledge that some day I will move back to the US or Canada and all this 220/240V, 50 Hz equipment will be on eBay. I settled for the Expobar Office Control as it was a very good price in the normally overpriced UK market. (Think same number in GBP as in US$ - about 80% more... for a product made closer to home.)

Perhaps in retrospect, I should have gone with a non-electronic (i.e. lever) controlled machine as it's relatively simple to provide 220V power in a US/CDN residence (like an electric dryer) and only the pump in a lever machine is likely to need to be changed for the North American 60Hz supply. I know - another thread, another time!

BTW - it would certainly be handy to see all the pipes in this picture labeled - I don't see that degree of detail in the Brewtus website (yet).

I see the large upper and lower HX pipes. The large pipe/fitting in the center of the boiler bottom must be the HX feed, as it is "in the loop" from the grouphead.. Then one of the pipes (at the bottom) must be boiler water in? (which one?) The plastic line on the right must be the water feed from the reservoir.

That leaves one medium size copper pipe in the bottom of the boiler, and one small and one medium pipe running from above the grouphead - the small one to the something on top of the boiler, the medium one to something out of sight below the boiler. Can anyone identify their functions? Oh - there is yet another medium copper pipe visible between the upper and lower HX pipes - it seems to be snaking out into the background - perhaps to a pressure gauge? (The Office has no gauge.)

Thanks!

HB wrote:For reference, the picture below is the boiler of an Expobar Lever. I think it looks similar to yours.

Hi CrackAddict
Yeah, I have a very detailed rundown of the piping in the Brewtus, I am just too lazy to post it and no one has asked.

The test I am talking about regarding water volume is done with the water wand not the group and the volume is measured when the pump to refill the boiler first goes on. the purpose is just to see where the water is going. the most likely candidate is the valve under the boiler.

sean

Thanks ever so much for the pipe ID - very helpful!

Also my apologies for misreading the suggestion on timing water flow to refill. I have just checked with a hot (ready) how much water I can get from the hot water (tea) tap before the pump kicks in and it is almost nothing - less than 25 ml. Any use of the tap essentially results in an almost-instant triggering of the pump to refill the boiler. I will follow up with the cold machine results asap.

you are most welcome.

No worries,
it was difficult concept for me to put into text and lost a lot in the translation.

let us know what the final result is

cheers,
sean

Test results are in and on a cold startup, the tea tap provides about 75 ml of water before the refill kicks in. While not much, this is more than 3X as much as when hot and "primed", when almost any use of the tea tap - even a few drops - will activate the refill.

This doesn't seem like a large amount, but perhaps it is enough to show that the 3W solenoid valve is leaking?

I have contacted the distributor to see if I can get a new valve at a reasonable cost. It's as easy to replace it as try and fix. If the replacement solves the problem and I can clean the original, I'll have a spare.

Will keep you posted.

Looks like you found the culprit. probably a piece of junk in the valve seat.

I would check the vacuum break on top of the boiler just to be sure it is not sticking and speeding the process along.

good luck!


Sean

Does a plugged Over Pressure Valve also create vapor lock situations? I have problems that are identical to what CrackAddict described with the difference being that I have an Expobar Lever. I noticed that the unit comes up to pressure very quickly sometimes and there is no heat to the group head. I have to take the top lid off and slightly push the metal shield covering the boiler to relieve the pressure. The pressure will then come up normally and the unit will start heating fine. I thought it was due to the clearance of the vacuum relief valve from the top metal piece (it seems like it's about 2mm or less).

Also was getting what I thought was excessive dripping to the overflow pan so I turned the OPV screw down two turns. Should I have done this?

Thanks for any ideas. The info on this thread has been a huge help so far.

Scott

I'm not sure what you mean by "slightly push the metal shield covering the boiler". Can you be more specific? Turning down the OPV valve lowers the pressure to the grouphead and - on my Office Control at least - increases the "dump" water into the drain pan. This is because the Office is set up to just dump any excess water flow diverted by the OPV valve. I used some aquarium tubing to route this back into the reservoir. Note: put a loop in the line at the top if you do this to prevent any possibility of siphoning back.

I still have the same problem. I took apart the water control solenoid (which is actually a two-way valve) and cleaned it to no avail. I have a new one now but have not tried to put it in yet. Expobar used a larger 1/4" valve on these machines so it was hard to come by.

Tell me - does your machine take a long time to "pump up" in the morning when you turn it on? By that I mean does the water pump run for 20+ seconds on power-up?

CrackAddict,

I was referring to the vacuum breaker valve on the top of the boiler. When I push the metal piece that sits over the boiler (and is just above the valve) I am able to bleed off the pressure from the boiler. There's enough flex that it doesn't permanently bend out of shape and there's minimal clearance between the stem of the valve and the plate. For some reason, the unit's been coming up to pressure normally this week without me having to do that. I've considered calling Chris' Coffee to find out about the vacuum breaker valve replacement he sells which he claims will get rid of the vapor lock issue.

No. I don't have the "pump up" issues you have described, but more the issue where it takes the water about 20 seconds or more to start coming out the nozzle. As one of the previous postings noted it's as if the system has "lost its prime."

I'm going to try working cleaning out the OPV this evening, but now I'm sure the pressure will be out of whack. I'll have to count the turns on the screw I guess. Another $51.00 and I can buy the pressure gauge/portafilter from Chris's Coffee too !

Thanks for the tip on routing the water back to the reservoir. I might give that a try.

Scott