So as I get more time and read around various threads I've seen that there may be options other than the E61 group head which could provide the same quality or possibly better, given that the E61 is a relatively old if very well proven and accepted solution for the grouphead.

Unless there is a thread similar to this I would be interested in knowing the relative merits and demerits of each the price bracket the sit in.

as I've mentioned in another post I'm very new to this so I'm trying to build up my knowledge. Though in all honesty whilst I'm looking at buying the likes of the Silvia I'm still interested in learning what else is out there.

BruceB wrote: Unless there is a thread similair to this I would be interested in knowing the relative merits and demerits of each the price bracket the sit in.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You might get more of a response if you post this question in the "espresso machines" forum.

That being said E61 is just the format of the group. I think that you may be really wanting to know the options besides heat exchangers in espresso. Most HX machines have the E61 format. The three general classes are single boiler, heat exchanger, and double boiler..these describe the internals of the machine primarily and how heated water is produced to brew and control the temp.

Most entry level espresso machines are single boiler (Gaggia Classic, Silvia) which have very good temperature control in general. Add a PID and you can be really in business with temp stability.

HX is probably the next level up in temp stability and cost. Will significantly improve work flow to steam milk if that is important in your drinks. Single boilers you'll have to change the temp from brew to steam and that can take some time. You also then have to purge the steam so that the boiler doesn't dry out for most entry machines.

Here is an article on SB vs HX but there is lots of discussion around
https://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/javajim/07-14-2003

Double boilers have a separate boiler for steaming and brewing and are usually another step up in price in general. All commercial machines are DB.

Does that help?

clumeng wrote:I think that you may be really wanting to know the options besides heat exchangers in espresso.

I don't think this is the essence of the question. I've wondered myself (although have not posted the question) why the predominent group head design is from 1961? Yes it seems to work relatively well, but 1961 is stone age technology in most other consumer product areas (think cars, or even washing machines). Is the general lack of R&D on group head design due to a "lack of market demand" or is has the grouphead been practically perfected in the e61?

La Marzocco Saturated Group. Superior design in most ways.

JBSmoovee wrote:I don't think this is the essence of the question. I've wondered myself (although have not posted the question) why the predominent group head design is from 1961? Yes it seems to work relatively well, but 1961 is stone age technology in most other consumer product areas (think cars, or even washing machines). Is the general lack of R&D on group head design due to a "lack of market demand" or is has the grouphead been practically perfected in the e61?

This is absolutely my question. I wasn't sure where to put it as it's not about a singular machine. I figured if this is the wrong place the mods can move it.