Hi all,

I've been using a bialetti stove top coffee brewer for the past two years. Compared instant fare (which I still have on occasion...usually when the missus makes one) I've been more than happy with the brew. I'd usually bring a saucepan of milk up to the boil then whisk (using one of those cheap cappuccino whisks) up for a froth. And that really was the extent of my coffee making.
Over Christmas however, we were given money/vouchers off our respective families and decided to put it towards an espresso machine. I did a fair amount of homework (sadly based on reviews rather than my usual first port of call - forums such as this one) and the machine I plumped for seemed to have the more favourable reviews. It also transpires that this machine was sold out across the whole country (websites/high street stores all out of stock). Luckily, I found one (perhaps the last one on sale, for the time being at least) lurking on a high street store website and promptly reserved it.

This is the machine:



And this is the product detail it comes with:

Product Information

Coffee enthusiasts will love the Dualit Espressivo 84200 coffee machine. It's designed with every element crafted to deliver the ultimate coffee; from a smooth espresso to a dense velvety latté.
Ready to go in less than 40 seconds, it's packed with user-friendly features, such as the 15-bar pump delivering the ideal pressure for the perfect 'crema', and the Thermobloc water heating system providing hot water and steam instantly.

Even the steaming and milk-frother is easy to use, making perfect foam for your cappuccino every time with the minimum of fuss. The water tank is removable for convenience, while a useful accessory holder keeps your ESE pods and froth nozzle to hand.

Key Features

Brand Dualit


Capacity 1.5L / 20 cups


Coffee type Ground coffee or pods


Colour Stainless steel


Cup warmer Yes


Dimensions H32.5 x W20.5 x D28.5cm


Guarantee FREE 3 year guarantee


Pressure 15 bar


Removable reservoir Yes


Wattage 1.25kW


Weight 5.81kg

Being on a tight budget (machine retails at £165, although I paid £144) I also picked up a Krups blade grinder...having been reading about 'purist' side of espresso/coffee making over the past few days, I can see why this set up might be frowned upon. Unfortunately, until I upgrade (which is likely now I've delved into this world!) in a couple of years, I'll have to make do with the purchasing decision I have taken.
I had a look around a few more machines within the price range (krups, gaggia etc) and none really seemed to be as well built as this Dualit model (there was one left in a store, but it wasn't the colour we wanted).
First impressions of the results were pretty good. A thick 'crema' was produced (bear in mind I'd never heard of that a couple of days back) and the single shot dark and full...it's a massive improvement on the stove top and all in all I'm happy with it. However, with my 'equipment' (and with space and money constraints this isn't going to change for sometime yet) I know I can somehow achieve better results.
Results have been a little inconsistent:

* Singles seem to work better than doubles.
* The plastic tamper (another new word/object for me) is plastic and appears to be 1 - 2mm shorter than the filter.
* This morning's pull (double) seemed to 'choke' then drip very slowly, taking almost a minute and a half to produce a shot (which I now know is far too long). Perhaps I tampered too firmly? I'd actually felt I was tamping too lightly (padding down with too little force), or perhaps the level is at an angle?
* I'm currently 'blending' with the Krups three lots of ten seconds bursts and the coffee does appear very fine...perhaps too fine? I'm going to try shorter bursts and shaking as a grind, I'm finding the coffee has been compacted a little on the tray which I then have to prise out with my fingers.

I've also had limited success with the milk steaming option (using cold, skimmed milk) although a steel frothing jug might help in that respect.

Any suggestions (and I've been reading myriad websites/articles over the past few days) on techniques and the machine itself would be greatly welcomed.
Fantastic site btw.

Many thanks.

Hi
You need to leave your grind a bit more coarse, closer to drip coffee. If you start grinding finer you will clog the basket and then your shots start taking for ever to pull, which may already be happening to you. The pressurized baskets are nearly impossible to clean once well clogged.

It's just almost impossible to do much with that setup to make it any better than it is. All I can really suggest is to get the best fresh roasted beans you can.

A real grinder will help, but is an exercise in frustration, as with a good grinder you will find that pressurized filter basket clogs up. Unless they gave you a non-pressurized basket that you can install.


**Edit: My comments speak from my personal experience with such a machine were in no way intended to make you feel bad about your setup.

Jamie

I'd buy some ESE pods and ditch the krups.

Perhaps I should've visited this site before my purchase...but space and money really wouldn't have permitted anything more unfortunately. Still, long term I'd like to look into the quality machines and grinders you folks discuss on these sites...and I can see why it would become obsessive (and I have enough obsessions at the moment!).

I don't even know what a pressurised basket is or in fact what it is for (I'll look it up)? Is it merely a cheaper way to attempt to replicate the functions of the pro-sumer/professional machines?
The manual, as it happens, mentions something about undoing the 'gasket' (the bit you lock the portafiler onto?) so I guess I could manually clean this if it does become clogged?
The coffee I purchased was bog standard supermarket fare too, which I guess won't help. I'll cut down on the 'grind' time a little too...but if I do this and get some decent beans, is it possible to get anything achieving a decent espresso?

ESE pods...feels like cheating a little

Many thanks for the replies.

norfbech wrote:I'm finding the coffee has been compacted a little on the tray which I then have to prise out with my fingers.

Ciao Dave,

By "the tray" what part are you referring to? Surely not the drip tray where you rest the cup. If you actually meant the filter basket inside the portafilter, after pulling a shot, one need not prise out the coffee puck with fingers (sounds grotty, doesn't it?). You can knock it out in one piece, straight into the bin; observe baristas at work in the better coffee shops, and you can see a lot of the common techniques.

Having been put on the defensive at times (not here, thank God) regarding my choice of a Starbucks Sirena, rest assured that I won't mock your equipment -- we all had to start somewhere. Glad you're enjoying the process so far -- it just gets better!

BTW, when it does come time to upgrade, High St. isn't the place to shop for the serious gear. You find it online, these days.

Happy Brewing,
Wayne

norfbech wrote:I don't even know what a pressurised basket is or in fact what it is for (I'll look it up)? Is it merely a cheaper way to attempt to replicate the functions of the pro-sumer/professional machines?

The PPF (pressurised portafilter) is one of those dastardly modern conveniences to make mediocre espresso a no-brainer. It is meant to compensate for lack of skill, fresh coffee and proper grinding.

norfbech wrote:The manual, as it happens, mentions something about undoing the 'gasket' (the bit you lock the portafiler onto?) so I guess I could manually clean this if it does become clogged?

If the manual is referring to the group head gasket (rather than some part of the PPF device), then you probably won't be "undoing it", at least not until it's too worn to seal properly. With the group gasket, which the PF does lock onto, the key is to clean it regularly to keep the residue from building up. Some PPFs do contain "gaskets" of a sort, so that could cause confusion. The manual should have provided illustrations, in any case.

Buona Fortuna,
Wayne

If there is still time, you could return both machines, buy a decent enough grinder and be happy with fresh ground coffee in the moka.
Cappuccino won't be possible, but if people ask just say that milk and sugar only add more calories and gives you heart attacks.

norfbech wrote:I don't even know what a pressurised basket is or in fact what it is for (I'll look it up)?

The thread Is this filter design "normal"? explains. There are a number of related threads in the FAQs and Favorites Digest (search on "pressurized portafilter"). Jim summarizes their purpose:

another_jim wrote:The pinhole design can get a fake crema from stale coffee, and a proper extraction time from too coarsely ground coffee; however, it creates a thinner bodied and weaker flavored shot than a regular basket when the coffee is fresh and ground correctly.

Alan is less charitable in Inside Domestic Espresso Machines:

Alan Frew wrote:Pressurized portafilters and pressurized filter baskets come in many guises, but they basically have a single purpose: to allow the customer to get the appearance of acceptable crema from stale, poorly ground supermarket coffee.

Bluecold wrote:If there is still time, you could return both machines, buy a decent enough grinder and be happy with fresh ground coffee in the moka.

I agree. Below my response to peacecup's suggestion from Living in the shadow:

peacecup wrote:One thing I personally would like to see on HB is a more open attitude to newbies using cheap gear to make espresso, rather than telling them to buy a french press and grinder and wait till they have $1000 to spend.

HB wrote:I've said that, and wish somebody would have mentioned it to me years ago. My interest in espresso emerged during my years in Europe, so I was a "late bloomer" on fresh coffee / French press preparation. In retrospect, I think a few months with a really good grinder and some great coffees would have served me better in my early espresso years. In those days, I thought bitter espresso was meant to be tamed by milk and sugar. Had I known what really good coffee tasted like, I would have challenged anything less appealing in espresso.

Hmm, I only just noticed that part about the Krups blade grinder. Oh dear. Had it not been for that, I might have recommended changing to a non-pressurised PF (by modification or substitution). But without a proper burr grinder, changing the PF would not help at all. It's one of the espresso facts of life.

The cheap alternative (as has been suggested often here) is a manual burr grinder, such as the Zassenhaus. I bought one for my best friend as a gift, and he loves it.

roastaroma wrote:Ciao Dave,

By "the tray" what part are you referring to? Surely not the drip tray where you rest the cup. If you actually meant the filter basket inside the portafilter, after pulling a shot, one need not prise out the coffee puck with fingers (sounds grotty, doesn't it?). You can knock it out in one piece, straight into the bin; observe baristas at work in the better coffee shops, and you can see a lot of the common techniques.

Thanks Wayne - sorry, I was acutally referring to the grinder - about 20% of the grind gets stuck and slightly compacted, hence the finger prise. This has been bettered since I shake whilst I use the grinder.

Having been put on the defensive at times (not here, thank God) regarding my choice of a Starbucks Sirena, rest assured that I won't mock your equipment -- we all had to start somewhere. Glad you're enjoying the process so far -- it just gets better!

BTW, when it does come time to upgrade, High St. isn't the place to shop for the serious gear. You find it online, these days.

Happy Brewing,
Wayne

Aye - even though I've got the very basic set up (almost to the point of being 'faux') I'm enjoying reading up on the trials, techniques and labours of love involved in true espresso making - it's been a real eye opener.
For most of my 'none coffee' and specialised equipment, I agree - online stores is where I tend to go these days. Cheers Wayne.

So - do you folks know this machine (perhaps it's a rebrand of another model?). Just wondering how you know it's a pressurised filter...it's not a pin hole, that's as much I know. I could post close up pics. Perhaps this might help determine whether (if it is pressurised) I would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?
So, aside from a [possible] pressurised filter, is the fact that it also uses a thermoblock (as opposed to a boiler?) detrimental to making a good espresso? I nearly picked up a gaggia (lower end admittedly) but it seemed about the same as the Dualit but with a cheaper build.

I get the impression that this Krups blade grinder really is a no no (for espresso at least). It can grind fine enough (or so I felt) but is it the fact that the grounds are uneven and 'burnt' the major issue?

What if I start off with the cheaper alternative manual burr, then perhaps look around for a burr on fleabay (et al)?

All in all, despite the limitations of this machine, the coffee is somewhat of an improvement on the old stove top...but it's far from great sadly

Many thanks for all the responses.

Cheers.

So - do you folks know this machine (perhaps it's a rebrand of another model?). Just wondering how you know it's a pressurised filter...it's not a pin hole, that's as much I know. I could post close up pics. Perhaps this might help determine whether (if it is pressurised) I would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?

My experience is that the Silvia at around $700 is the least expensive machine to come with a standard style filter. Yes, one of the machines I have is very similar to yours, could even made by the same company.

would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?

If your asking where to get a non-pressurized porta filter basket, I would say don't do it until you get a much better grinder. Speaking from 1st hand personal experience, it will be a exercise in frustration. I would not even put the effort into trying a non-pressurized filter until you get a grinder like a Rancilio Rocky http://www.rancilio.it/rancilio/prod_model.jsp?id_model=47&id_language=3&id_category=26 or better.

I get the impression that this Krups blade grinder really is a no no (for espresso at least). It can grind fine enough (or so I felt) but is it the fact that the grounds are uneven and 'burnt' the major issue?

Again in my experience blade grinders or sub-$100USD burr grinders all produce very poor results, I belive it is due to a number of reasons including the ones you mentioned.

I purchased a Mazzer Mini Electronic Version http://www.mazzer.com/scheda.asp?idprod=8 and have been extremely happy with it. It does an excellent job, and you can even produce acceptable shots with a pressurized basket machine with a good grinder. It still takes a lot of effort with a entry level machine to make good shots, even with a high end grinder.

Jamie

jamiedolan wrote:My experience is that the Silvia at around $700 is the least expensive machine to come with a standard style filter. Yes, one of the machines I have is very similar to yours, could even made by the same company.

You can get a Gaggia Carezza or Espresso for about $200 that has a non-pressurized filter, and it's even in the standard 58mm commercial size. I would return your machine and get a Gaggia if I were you. Although the low-end Gaggias have a cheap plastic exterior, their internal parts are capable of making good espresso. While your current machine has a nice stainless skin, the thermoblock and cheap brew group/portafilter will keep it from ever making good shots.

As for burr grinders, as others have said, the grinder is at least as important as the machine for making good espresso. You really can't do it with a blade or cheap burr grinder, because cheap grinders give you no control over the size of the coffee grounds, which is essential for decent shots. Even some relatively expensive grinders like the Rocky don't give you enough control over grind size in my opinion, since they have only a few steps in adjustment in the espresso range, and you often can't adjust the grinder to produce a proper 25-30 second shot. Ideally, an espresso grinder should have infinite, stepless adjustments to allow you to dial in your grind to just the right level.

For an affordable burr grinder with stepless adjustments, look at the Lelit stepless grinder at 1st-line, or the Ascaso iMini. The Cunill Tranquilo is also supposed to be quite good. Those grinders are a little over $200 right now, which is the lowest price you're going to find for a good grinder. They go up steeply from there.

Finally, you'll need some good fresh beans to make great shots. Don't buy from the supermarket or Starbucks. Their beans are usually months old and very stale, plus they're overroasted. Get some beans from one of the site sponsors like Counter Culture, Intelligentsia, or Coffee Klatch. If you use stale beans, you'll only get very thin and bitter shots.

Thanks Jamie - I'll look into those grinders.

Beezer:
I'm generally too polite to take things back (not always a good thing!) but in this instance I think it's possibly justified. I've given it a good clean and it looks brand new (I'll possibly claim it was an unwanted gift).
Checked the portafilter and voila - I've spotted the pinhole pressurised filters. Might the 'crema' I've been getting from this machine merely be a faux/forced 'crema'? I must admit that the coffee's are better than I got from the stove top (although I'm using 'fresh' beans now), but they're nothing approaching even a good espresso (sour, bitter, harsh at the back of the throat - milk brings them back to life). The milk steamer is no better than when I simmered milk in a saucepan and finished it off with a handheld electric milk frother.

Ok...funnily enough, there is a Gaggia Carezza on fleabay for £30 (buy now of £45)...not sure how much trouble I'd get from a 2nd hand machine however.
I've also looked at the Gaggia Cubika and this one below - the Gaggia Espresso (which I could pick up from the same store as the one I'm returning the Dualit to):

http://www.thereallyusefulstore.co.uk/P~144252~Gaggia+Espresso+Pure+Coffee+Maker+74840

These few seem to all have the standard 58 portafilter (I can only presume non pressurised?) and a steel boiler (which I again presume the Dualit doesn't have?).
Would these suit me better (the grinder will have to wait, but I'll shop around for a good, perhaps used, deal)?

Huge thanks for the opinions...I don't usually rush into purchases but on this occasion it seems I was a little hasty (and with hindsight, lacking qualified help from communities such as this one).

Cheers.

** Just a quick note on the Gaggia Carezza:
I'm finding it very difficult to locate any in the UK. I can look into the Cubika, but they seem pretty sparse too. With the Gaggia Espresso Pure ( http://www.thereallyusefulstore.co.uk/P~144252~Gaggia+Espresso+Pure+Coffee+Maker+74840 )

I can pretty much swap this at the store I purchased the Dualit for (give or take £20). Struggling to find any reviews on this machine, but I'm assuming it's a new version of the old Gaggia Espresso??
With a steel boiler and the 58 brass/chrome portafilter I'd feel a bit happier with this one.

I would say swap your machine for the Gaggia Espresso Pure if you can. Most Gaggias are pretty much the same internally, so whether you get a Carezza, Espresso, or Cubika, I think they're functionally about the same. However, it does appear that the new Gaggias now have stainless steel boilers instead of aluminum, which is a good thing since aluminum will eventually corrode and fail. Stainless should last much longer. Hopefully the other features, especially the unpressurized 58 brass portafilter, remain unchanged.

Unfortunately, you will need a good burr grinder to get the most out of a Gaggia or any other machine without a pressurized filter. I can understand not wanting to spend another $200 or more on a grinder right now, but it's the only way you'll get good results. If you can't afford one now, at least start saving for one so you can buy it as soon as possible. Otherwise, your shiny new machine will only give you mediocre results.

I've found a pretty decent price for an Ascaso I Mini, which (seeing 'I'll be another year older' in a couple of months), can just about afford on such short notice (I'd never intended to have another expensive pastime/obsession). At £135 (cheapest I've found) I shouldn't be shot by the missus.
The bonus with that grinder is the size...there really is no more space on our worksurfaces (and these are for gadgets that we actually use on a daily basis). Seems to have a enough favourable reviews on here and elsewhere for me to suggest it might be a good companion piece (although I'm sure they're are far better grinders our there).
Plus the shop I might purchase it from sell a nice range of fresh coffee beans (Hasbean in the uk).

Yes - the 58mm chromed brass filter is on this model too.

My only worry now is getting stick at the store for a non faulty (and used, although I've cleaned it back to brand new) item ...

Now...might I be on a better track, since thinking the Dualit and Krups blade would suffice ?

Huge thanks.

You're definitely on the right track now. Aren't you glad you posted here?

I haven't used the Ascaso IMini myself, but it seems to be a good grinder for the price. The stepless adjustment in particular is a very nice feature, since it allows you to dial in your grind just right. With that and a Gaggia, plus some decent fresh beans, you should be in good shape. Enjoy your new toys.

Many thanks - and yes I'm glad, although I wish I wasn't so hasty when I purchased the first machine!

Got any good 'returns' excuses?

It is almost identical to the setup my friend ended up getting some years ago when he began his journey into the world of espresso. He went at the time with a gaggia baby and an innova/ascaso i-1.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll have fun with this setup.