roastaroma wrote:Ciao Dave,

By "the tray" what part are you referring to? Surely not the drip tray where you rest the cup. If you actually meant the filter basket inside the portafilter, after pulling a shot, one need not prise out the coffee puck with fingers (sounds grotty, doesn't it?). You can knock it out in one piece, straight into the bin; observe baristas at work in the better coffee shops, and you can see a lot of the common techniques.

Thanks Wayne - sorry, I was acutally referring to the grinder - about 20% of the grind gets stuck and slightly compacted, hence the finger prise. This has been bettered since I shake whilst I use the grinder.

Having been put on the defensive at times (not here, thank God) regarding my choice of a Starbucks Sirena, rest assured that I won't mock your equipment -- we all had to start somewhere. Glad you're enjoying the process so far -- it just gets better!

BTW, when it does come time to upgrade, High St. isn't the place to shop for the serious gear. You find it online, these days.

Happy Brewing,
Wayne

Aye - even though I've got the very basic set up (almost to the point of being 'faux') I'm enjoying reading up on the trials, techniques and labours of love involved in true espresso making - it's been a real eye opener.
For most of my 'none coffee' and specialised equipment, I agree - online stores is where I tend to go these days. Cheers Wayne.

So - do you folks know this machine (perhaps it's a rebrand of another model?). Just wondering how you know it's a pressurised filter...it's not a pin hole, that's as much I know. I could post close up pics. Perhaps this might help determine whether (if it is pressurised) I would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?
So, aside from a [possible] pressurised filter, is the fact that it also uses a thermoblock (as opposed to a boiler?) detrimental to making a good espresso? I nearly picked up a gaggia (lower end admittedly) but it seemed about the same as the Dualit but with a cheaper build.

I get the impression that this Krups blade grinder really is a no no (for espresso at least). It can grind fine enough (or so I felt) but is it the fact that the grounds are uneven and 'burnt' the major issue?

What if I start off with the cheaper alternative manual burr, then perhaps look around for a burr on fleabay (et al)?

All in all, despite the limitations of this machine, the coffee is somewhat of an improvement on the old stove top...but it's far from great sadly

Many thanks for all the responses.

Cheers.

So - do you folks know this machine (perhaps it's a rebrand of another model?). Just wondering how you know it's a pressurised filter...it's not a pin hole, that's as much I know. I could post close up pics. Perhaps this might help determine whether (if it is pressurised) I would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?

My experience is that the Silvia at around $700 is the least expensive machine to come with a standard style filter. Yes, one of the machines I have is very similar to yours, could even made by the same company.

would be able to get hold of non pressurised filter?

If your asking where to get a non-pressurized porta filter basket, I would say don't do it until you get a much better grinder. Speaking from 1st hand personal experience, it will be a exercise in frustration. I would not even put the effort into trying a non-pressurized filter until you get a grinder like a Rancilio Rocky http://www.rancilio.it/rancilio/prod_model.jsp?id_model=47&id_language=3&id_category=26 or better.

I get the impression that this Krups blade grinder really is a no no (for espresso at least). It can grind fine enough (or so I felt) but is it the fact that the grounds are uneven and 'burnt' the major issue?

Again in my experience blade grinders or sub-$100USD burr grinders all produce very poor results, I belive it is due to a number of reasons including the ones you mentioned.

I purchased a Mazzer Mini Electronic Version http://www.mazzer.com/scheda.asp?idprod=8 and have been extremely happy with it. It does an excellent job, and you can even produce acceptable shots with a pressurized basket machine with a good grinder. It still takes a lot of effort with a entry level machine to make good shots, even with a high end grinder.

Jamie

jamiedolan wrote:My experience is that the Silvia at around $700 is the least expensive machine to come with a standard style filter. Yes, one of the machines I have is very similar to yours, could even made by the same company.

You can get a Gaggia Carezza or Espresso for about $200 that has a non-pressurized filter, and it's even in the standard 58mm commercial size. I would return your machine and get a Gaggia if I were you. Although the low-end Gaggias have a cheap plastic exterior, their internal parts are capable of making good espresso. While your current machine has a nice stainless skin, the thermoblock and cheap brew group/portafilter will keep it from ever making good shots.

As for burr grinders, as others have said, the grinder is at least as important as the machine for making good espresso. You really can't do it with a blade or cheap burr grinder, because cheap grinders give you no control over the size of the coffee grounds, which is essential for decent shots. Even some relatively expensive grinders like the Rocky don't give you enough control over grind size in my opinion, since they have only a few steps in adjustment in the espresso range, and you often can't adjust the grinder to produce a proper 25-30 second shot. Ideally, an espresso grinder should have infinite, stepless adjustments to allow you to dial in your grind to just the right level.

For an affordable burr grinder with stepless adjustments, look at the Lelit stepless grinder at 1st-line, or the Ascaso iMini. The Cunill Tranquilo is also supposed to be quite good. Those grinders are a little over $200 right now, which is the lowest price you're going to find for a good grinder. They go up steeply from there.

Finally, you'll need some good fresh beans to make great shots. Don't buy from the supermarket or Starbucks. Their beans are usually months old and very stale, plus they're overroasted. Get some beans from one of the site sponsors like Counter Culture, Intelligentsia, or Coffee Klatch. If you use stale beans, you'll only get very thin and bitter shots.

Thanks Jamie - I'll look into those grinders.

Beezer:
I'm generally too polite to take things back (not always a good thing!) but in this instance I think it's possibly justified. I've given it a good clean and it looks brand new (I'll possibly claim it was an unwanted gift).
Checked the portafilter and voila - I've spotted the pinhole pressurised filters. Might the 'crema' I've been getting from this machine merely be a faux/forced 'crema'? I must admit that the coffee's are better than I got from the stove top (although I'm using 'fresh' beans now), but they're nothing approaching even a good espresso (sour, bitter, harsh at the back of the throat - milk brings them back to life). The milk steamer is no better than when I simmered milk in a saucepan and finished it off with a handheld electric milk frother.

Ok...funnily enough, there is a Gaggia Carezza on fleabay for £30 (buy now of £45)...not sure how much trouble I'd get from a 2nd hand machine however.
I've also looked at the Gaggia Cubika and this one below - the Gaggia Espresso (which I could pick up from the same store as the one I'm returning the Dualit to):

http://www.thereallyusefulstore.co.uk/P~144252~Gaggia+Espresso+Pure+Coffee+Maker+74840

These few seem to all have the standard 58 portafilter (I can only presume non pressurised?) and a steel boiler (which I again presume the Dualit doesn't have?).
Would these suit me better (the grinder will have to wait, but I'll shop around for a good, perhaps used, deal)?

Huge thanks for the opinions...I don't usually rush into purchases but on this occasion it seems I was a little hasty (and with hindsight, lacking qualified help from communities such as this one).

Cheers.

** Just a quick note on the Gaggia Carezza:
I'm finding it very difficult to locate any in the UK. I can look into the Cubika, but they seem pretty sparse too. With the Gaggia Espresso Pure ( http://www.thereallyusefulstore.co.uk/P~144252~Gaggia+Espresso+Pure+Coffee+Maker+74840 )

I can pretty much swap this at the store I purchased the Dualit for (give or take £20). Struggling to find any reviews on this machine, but I'm assuming it's a new version of the old Gaggia Espresso??
With a steel boiler and the 58 brass/chrome portafilter I'd feel a bit happier with this one.

I would say swap your machine for the Gaggia Espresso Pure if you can. Most Gaggias are pretty much the same internally, so whether you get a Carezza, Espresso, or Cubika, I think they're functionally about the same. However, it does appear that the new Gaggias now have stainless steel boilers instead of aluminum, which is a good thing since aluminum will eventually corrode and fail. Stainless should last much longer. Hopefully the other features, especially the unpressurized 58 brass portafilter, remain unchanged.

Unfortunately, you will need a good burr grinder to get the most out of a Gaggia or any other machine without a pressurized filter. I can understand not wanting to spend another $200 or more on a grinder right now, but it's the only way you'll get good results. If you can't afford one now, at least start saving for one so you can buy it as soon as possible. Otherwise, your shiny new machine will only give you mediocre results.

I've found a pretty decent price for an Ascaso I Mini, which (seeing 'I'll be another year older' in a couple of months), can just about afford on such short notice (I'd never intended to have another expensive pastime/obsession). At £135 (cheapest I've found) I shouldn't be shot by the missus.
The bonus with that grinder is the size...there really is no more space on our worksurfaces (and these are for gadgets that we actually use on a daily basis). Seems to have a enough favourable reviews on here and elsewhere for me to suggest it might be a good companion piece (although I'm sure they're are far better grinders our there).
Plus the shop I might purchase it from sell a nice range of fresh coffee beans (Hasbean in the uk).

Yes - the 58mm chromed brass filter is on this model too.

My only worry now is getting stick at the store for a non faulty (and used, although I've cleaned it back to brand new) item ...

Now...might I be on a better track, since thinking the Dualit and Krups blade would suffice ?

Huge thanks.

You're definitely on the right track now. Aren't you glad you posted here?

I haven't used the Ascaso IMini myself, but it seems to be a good grinder for the price. The stepless adjustment in particular is a very nice feature, since it allows you to dial in your grind just right. With that and a Gaggia, plus some decent fresh beans, you should be in good shape. Enjoy your new toys.

Many thanks - and yes I'm glad, although I wish I wasn't so hasty when I purchased the first machine!

Got any good 'returns' excuses?

It is almost identical to the setup my friend ended up getting some years ago when he began his journey into the world of espresso. He went at the time with a gaggia baby and an innova/ascaso i-1.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll have fun with this setup.