I struggled getting good microfoam with the Andreja until I stopped off at Chris's (to buy a second grinder for FP). While I was there, Chris and Mary demonstrated (again), and after I did two steamings, I began doing near perfect microfoam. Since then, every time has been excellent. I had been using a slightly bad angle and a fractionally wrong depth for the tip. Now it seems so easy I wonder why I didn't "get it" before.

Good to hear that there's still hope. My hopes are set on tomorrow as I will participate in a workshop at the SCAE event here in Copenhagen. Even though the machines are quite different I still hope to be able to transfer the right "feel" to my home. If that does the trick I'll try to make an Andreja steaming guide for all those who keep struggling.

Could you share some of the insights Chris gave you?

Cheers!

Bas

Hi Elbasso

I can see that we have a lot of things in common...... Denmark, Andreja Premium and steaming problems

I agree with the other ones saying that it gets better with a lot of practice.

I normally steam for one cappuccino only. I have experienced that when steaming small quantities of milk it is getting much better if 1 of the holes is blocked with a toothpick (cocktailstick)

Regards
Kim

Quoddy wrote:I struggled getting good microfoam with the Andreja until I stopped off at Chris's (to buy a second grinder for FP). While I was there, Chris and Mary demonstrated (again), and after I did two steamings, I began doing near perfect microfoam. Since then, every time has been excellent. I had been using a slightly bad angle and a fractionally wrong depth for the tip. Now it seems so easy I wonder why I didn't "get it" before.

Quoddy, if you wouldn't mind, could you give a detailed description of your method, and exactly what Chris and Mary taught you that helped you. Like the position of the steam arm (straight out towards you from the machine or to the left, tipped up or pointed down), the size of the pitcher and how full it is, how you hold it, the angle at which you hold it, etc. I know this might not be that easy to convey in a thread (compared to having Chris and Mary show you), but your best try would be really appreciated.

I'm getting better, and watching RegulatorJohnson's Vetrano video's have helped, but my foam is still a little grainy and I don't have that much of it.

did ya check out my videos??

you can see what i use.

on 2hole tip position...i like 9 and 3 o'clock. up to maybe 10 - 2 any more and the steam doesnt spin as fast for me. plus the air injection is better and cleaner at 9-3

start with smaller bubbles you end with smaller bubbles. so gently add air quickly but gently.

dont add air after the pitcher does not feel cold. dont do it.. try not to. this just creates big bubbles that dont break down.

work quickly but with purpose.

practice.

hold you hands steady. or since i have no burn steam wand i touch the wand and pinch the pitcher against the wand and use minimal finger movement to move the pitcher very little. it is amazing how a little angle will greatly change the swirl.

go practice.

get some milk and go through a whole gallon. you will learn faster with less time between tries. you can waste a gallon of milk over a week with tries or in 30 minutes. you will get farther doing it all at once.

practice. be aware. listen to the sounds.

jon

oh yeah.

you can poke your finger into the milk. it should look like white latex paint..
it should coat your finger thickly.
no visible bubbles..
not very drippy...

this is what works best for me for rosettas.

also try to make yourself under stretch on purpose then work your way up instead of down from the thicker stiffer foamy milk.

relax. and enjoy. repeat.

jon

RegulatorJohnson wrote:under stretch on purpose then work your way up

Thank you for the tips. Could you please clarify the above comment?

Also, when I look at your video (below) then it doesn't seem that there's a lot of volume increase in the stretching phase. Is this because of the camera angle or was there actually very little foam created? Just asking cause I generally aim for a 30 - 40% expansion after stretching. Maybe I'm always over doing it?
Bas

RegulatorJohnson wrote:did ya check out my videos??

Jon - Yes, I've watched your videos many times (see my post just above). I actually posted a comment on YouTube to one of your videos, asking what size and type of pitcher you use. But I'll ask it again here . What size and type of pitcher do you use? It looks like a standard 12 oz, but when I use my 12 oz the whirlpool gets very violent making it very difficult to surf the tip at the optimal depth. Yours seems fast, but not out of control, and it stays flat (doesn't have high spots that spill out), unlike my attempts with the small pitcher. I'm thinking of getting a Rattleware 16 oz as an intermediate step-down from 20 oz.

Watching your videos has helped me, but I'm still not even close to where I want to be. When I first started, I was positioning the pitcher so the tip entered near the "front" of the pitcher, closer to the machine, with the entire milk volume in front of the tip. But in your videos you have the tip entering at the "back", closer to you, so the tip is almost pointing directly at the wall of the pitcher that is farthest away from the machine. It seems by doing this the steam hits the wall of the pitcher very quickly, which may help to disperse and tame it and stop the violent circulation that makes surfing at the critical depth very difficult. Does this make any sense?

Elbasso wrote:Thank you for the tips. Could you please clarify the above comment?Just asking cause I generally aim for a 30 - 40% expansion after stretching. Maybe I'm always over doing it?

you answered it your self. try under doing it.

jon

ppopp wrote:Jon - Yes, I've watched your videos many times (see my post just above). I actually posted a comment on YouTube to one of your videos, asking what size and type of pitcher you use. But I'll ask it again here . What size and type of pitcher do you use? It looks like a standard 12 oz, but when I use my 12 oz the whirlpool gets very violent making it very difficult to surf the tip at the optimal depth. Yours seems fast, but not out of control, and it stays flat (doesn't have high spots that spill out), unlike my attempts with the small pitcher. I'm thinking of getting a Rattleware 16 oz as an intermediate step-down from 20 oz.

Watching your videos has helped me, but I'm still not even close to where I want to be. When I first started, I was positioning the pitcher so the tip entered near the "front" of the pitcher, closer to the machine, with the entire milk volume in front of the tip. But in your videos you have the tip entering at the "back", closer to you, so the tip is almost pointing directly at the wall of the pitcher that is farthest away from the machine. It seems by doing this the steam hits the wall of the pitcher very quickly, which may help to disperse and tame it and stop the violent circulation that makes surfing at the critical depth very difficult. Does this make any sense?

i couldnt get it to post back to you on youtube. its just a regular update brand 12 oz pitcher. i smash mine a bit to make the spout a bit pointier. just a normal pitcher.

the handle of the pitcher for me point directly to me.. in the middle of my chest. lets call the handle 6 oclock. the spout is 12 oclock. the tip points into the spout at a fairly steep angle i want it to push steam down and also around. being near the side of the pitcher helps the steam go around by using the curve of the side of the pitcher and the hole in the tip of your steam wand that is at 3 oclock. the hole at 9 oclock will be the one that injects the air. you want to gently inject air then sink the tip a very small amount so instead of pushing new are in (stretching) you are pushing your foam back down through the whirlpool. this makes the bubbles smaller.

recently i went to a 4 hole tip its quite fast. the normal vetrano tip is about 30ish seconds for 5ish ounces..the "2 hole isomac is almost a minute for the same milk. the 4 hole goes in about 20 seconds. no room for error but you get a nicer foam when you get it right. so im back to learning again. i have been practicing with water. when through a half gallon of milk the other day.

jon