Hello Coffee Comrades,

About four years ago, I entered the world of home roasting and never looked back. The whirlybird-popcorn-popper-on-a-gas-grill was my coffee roasting method in the early days until my wife purchased a SR500 Fresh Roast machine for our anniversary. Our coffee quality took a giant leap forward with fresh, home roasted beans and was improved again with the purchase of the Mazzer Mini grinder.

Here's where I need your help. I'd like to optimize home roasting with an espresso machine upgrade. Here are a few objectives:

1. Maximize the flavor of home roasts with sweet shots (crema preferred).
2. Have enough steam to make multiple milk-based drinks when entertaining guests. Who knows, perhaps enter the world of latte art.
3. Buy either new or used but either way, own a machine that will last as long as our Estro Profi has (about 17 years and counting).

I'm totally open to suggestions such as lever, manual, semi-auto, automatic, or other. The catch is... under $750 is preferred and $500'ish is even better. Again, used eBay or Craigslist is no problem provided the machine has a dependable track record. I purchased the Mazzer Mini on eBay and have been very pleased with the results.

I'm really excited to read what you coffee gurus come up with!

Thanks,

Rex

You could buy a used heat-exchanger machine. If you have basic electrical and plumbing skills, buying a machine with common parts (like a semi-commercial machine with an E61 group) lets you to keep it in repair yourself indefinitely. These machines run around $1250 to $2500 new; and if you are patient, you'll find a used one in your budget range.

Note well: this class of machine is less about the trouble free operation you get from good home appliances, and more about the guaranteed and open ended repairability of commercial gear. Expect frequent glitches you can troubleshoot and repair yourself. If that is not what you want; stay away from them.

Agree with Jim. My first machine was a new Isomac Millenium E61 that I got on eBay from the importer. It was dropped enroute to him and got scuffed. I got it for $750, it was listed at $1050. I kept it running for more than ten years and it is still good for parts. I figure I made more than 12,000 shots on it.

Otherwise, look into the Rancilio Silvia.

PS: I just got a La Spaziale Vivaldi II.

keep your eyes open on the local CL and eBay for a single group commercial machine. You can occasionally find them listed for around the $800 range but you might be able to talk them down to $5-600.

I was about to buy a brand new Silvia when a fellow homeroaster on the Sweet Maria's mailing list (back when it worked) mentioned he was listing a Faema C85 and would give priority to anyone on the list.

Well, I jumped on that and he assured me that it would blow away the Silvia. $600. It's not the prettiest machine, but damn does it make a nice shot. I'm a function-over-form guy - if you like chrome and style, be prepared to pay a little more. If you're just after a great machine, look for a used commercial machine.

And no matter what machine you end up with, learning the theory of operation (they're dead simple, for the most part) and maintenance (some specialized tool and techniques may help but are not an absolute requirement) will help you tremendously.

I agree with everything that has been said except for the Silvia recommendation. I don't see that as an appropriate route considering that you've mentioned you need to be able to make many milk-based drinks with guests. Waiting to steam milk until after you've pulled your temp-surfed shot is nonsense in that scenario - IMHO. As well, unless you get the Silvia used, it's overpriced as it approaches the HX territory of machines that mostly outperform the consistency and quality offered by the Silvia.

Jim and Allon made great points. You need either an HX or DB machine. Coffeegeek and H-B Buy/Sell forums tend to have something used in those two offerings at great prices compared to new.

The main point I'd like to make as others have made other appropriate points. Get a machine that you've thoroughly researched and understand. By understand I mean, you know it's shortcomings IF ANY, because most - if not all - machines that sell for upwards of $2000 new are capable of exceptional espresso. However, each machine tends to need tweaking by the users and an understanding of WHY, for instance you may need to understand temperature offset. Whether that's tweaking to the brain of the machine or a routine that tweaks the machine into exceptional shot territory - flush amounts, etc.

I'll be frank, I wish I had a DB. I'm growing increasingly tired of flushing my a$$ off to get my machine into 'the zone'. Grass is always greener... right?

I'm impressed with you H-B aficionados! Thanks so much for replying with your wise E61 counsel.

It seems that a DB machine would meet my functional objectives if I can find a price to match. If anyone else has suggestions for a particular make and model, I would be grateful.

Also, I'd be interested in comments about proprietary-E61-like machines such as the Pasquini Livia 90. I'm not particularly interested in plumbing-in a water line and would like to know if there are E61 suggestions with reservoirs.

You could also go the way of the lever machines. Those who use them are dramatically enthusiastic about them. The reality is that you really can produce extraordinary espresso with them. Another reality is that learning to get the most out of them takes some time, and it is very easy to make espresso that not only is bad, but very bad. These machines provide extreme control over the final product, especially the direct lever machines like the La Pavoni Europiccola. Making espresso with this type of machine quickly becomes a ritual, and normally the more it is made into ritual the better the result! Let no one tell you otherwise, however, if you fully master one of these machines you can make amazing espresso!

I owned a liva 90 semi auto for 13 years. It was a well built hx machine with plenty of steam power. The group is welded to the boiler -so it tormented me with temperature swings and many sink shots trying to find that sweet spot. Be prepared for a learning curve. While it is a simple machine to work on and was reliable - due to its proprietary design- parts were expensive.

Tank verses plumb- some have pour over, some don't. Some have both. If you are cranking out a large volume of drinks- a pour over is going to get old real quick refilling the tank. I'm a single drinker in the family so it is not an issue for me.

rpavlis wrote:You could also go the way of the lever machines.

Will a lever machine provide the volume of steam quickly needed when entertaining six to ten latte-thirsty guests?

I dunno, this is the second time I've seen a lever recommendation that ignores the OP's needs. A La Pav Euro? Really? For entertaining? Really? Your needs for entertaining and creating many milk based drinks at a time are not met with most, if not all, small manual or even spring lever machines. You'd need a commercial lever like a Londinium, Bosco ,etc. AT WORST.

Someone may barge into this thread and talk about how 'easy' it has been for them to [INSERT ROUTINE HERE] with their [INSERT SMALL MANUAL/SPRING LEVER HERE], but I doubt it.