I found this Rio on Ebay it is close to the house and looks a little rough. I can meet the power and water requirements for this machine and I don't really need the two group but if the price is right it might work for me. Is there any info on this machine and what could be wrong with it? Is there any reason i wouldnt want this for home use other than the size?

Is that the same as the San Marino Lisa? If so, I'd avoid it at all costs. They tend to run exceptionally hot. One of the cafe owners that I work for has one at home and we tease him about it all the time. He doesn't even bother trying to defend himself

On the other hand......very good HX machines, very good boilers which are easy to take apart, simple and bullet-proof construction and parts are available everywhere.

Any heat exchange system will run hot but the trick is to play with water levels, pressure switch setting and the thermosyphon loop efficiency (there are various gicleurs available to slow down/speed up the thermosyphon). Oh and play with the cooling flush.

I picked up a 2 group Wega Sphera (99% same as the Lisa but with really ugly buttons) last year and it makes great coffee.

Paul

Paul_Pratt wrote:On the other hand......very good HX machines, very good boilers which are easy to take apart, simple and bullet-proof construction and parts are available everywhere.

Any heat exchange system will run hot but the trick is to play with water levels, pressure switch setting and the thermosyphon loop efficiency (there are various gicleurs available to slow down/speed up the thermosyphon). Oh and play with the cooling flush.

I picked up a 2 group Wega Sphera (99% same as the Lisa but with really ugly buttons) last year and it makes great coffee.

Paul

Luca do you bag every machine that isnt worth upwards of 10k? OR Veneziano dont sell?

Just curious....

The CMA machines as Paul has pointed out are pretty good work horses and you can balance them so you dont get too much heat in the HX..

Unbelievable the amount of machines you sit there and rubbish on the various sites...

junkinduck-

That auction has a lot going for it..... near you, local pickup no problem, and a complete machine, right down to the manuals, BUT things to consider....

*Near as I can tell, it looks like it has a manufacture date of 10/1997, so things may be in need of some overhauling, (and cleaning)
*Find out how it was stored... if it has water in it and has frozen, the heat exchangers and/or boiler may be broken.
*The rotary pump is outboard, so you need to accomadate mounting the pump somewhere,
*You need to be able to provide the 240V needed
*It's freaking huge!

Only you know for sure how handy you are and whether you can live with a 2 group in the house or not.

You might also contact Psyd here, he lives with a 2-group Astoria in the house, he'll give the ups and downs of what that is like.

CMS is the importer of the SM in Australia. They DONT alter anything from the machines when they get here so there is a tendency for them to run hot.. like alot of machines in Italy run... but that doesnt mean ALL CMS machines (including San Marinos) are the same around the world Luca.. importers adjust them to suit their particular market.. either at assembly or when they land them.

CK wrote:Luca do you bag every machine that isnt worth upwards of 10k? OR Veneziano dont sell?

Just curious....

The CMA machines as Paul has pointed out are pretty good work horses and you can balance them so you dont get too much heat in the HX..

Unbelievable the amount of machines you sit there and rubbish on the various sites...

Just speaking from experience. Andrew has a San Marino Lisa at home and Veneziano had one up on the bench not too long ago. It ran hot, got tweaked as a sort of a pet project, made some nice espresso, then died pretty quickly. No problems at all with CMA machines, just the SM Lisa in particular - and a lot of the baristi that I've talked to here also don't like them. I actually really liked a WEGA polaris that I got to play around with last year.

Maybe the particular machines that I have used had just had a bit too much abuse. Maybe not. It's a risk to be taken into account if buying second-hand. Regardless, I certainly should have given a bit of an explanation for why I don't like them, rather than presenting my opinions as gospel. Paul's post was certainly much more informative.

I'll try to be less curmudgeonly in future, but nothing is going to change the fact that there are a lot of machines that I don't like.

Cheers,

Luca

luca wrote:Just speaking from experience. Andrew has a San Marino Lisa at home and Veneziano had one up on the bench not too long ago. It ran hot, got tweaked as a sort of a pet project, made some nice espresso, then died pretty quickly. No problems at all with CMA machines, just the SM Lisa in particular - and a lot of the baristi that I've talked to here also don't like them. I actually really liked a WEGA polaris that I got to play around with last year.

Maybe the particular machines that I have used had just had a bit too much abuse. Maybe not. It's a risk to be taken into account if buying second-hand. Regardless, I certainly should have given a bit of an explanation for why I don't like them, rather than presenting my opinions as gospel. Paul's post was certainly much more informative.

I'll try to be less curmudgeonly in future, but nothing is going to change the fact that there are a lot of machines that I don't like.

Cheers,

Luca

Thank you Luca,
I do look forward to reading your articles because youre also informative and sometimes witty... but you spoil it when the 'bag' comes out..especially when it says "under no circumstances"..or "cheap spanish machine" when referring to an Azkoyen in another article.... dont know whats cheap about an Azkoyen from Diamond C.. and i dont believe YOU have ever bought one...



.. or "paperweight"...or "boat anchor" as i have read you describe other brands...

I dont know what you mean by "it made some good espresso then it died".... .Died How?... that was it?.... scrap metal?

Anyway keep up your good stuff!

Well I didnt get it. Had it at 301.05 and with less than 30 seconds the broadband people overrode us poor dial up guys. oh well I would have just had to make room for the thing. Back to the Anita vs Alex battle.

I can definitely recommend the Alex as i have one and have given it a thorough workout.
Fantastic extractions.
Rotary pump that can be plumbed in if desired.
Cant go wrong with it. Put together like a brick outhouse.. and im sure your grandkids will fight over it in many years to come.