My Salvatore One is not holding pressure - Page 2

#11: Post by **onthego** » August 2nd, 2009, 2:34 pm

zoomchick wrote:When I first got a One, I would power on and wait for the pressure to rise and hold steady then purge the steam valve and leave it to heat up/rebuild pressure for 15-20 minutes.

Wendy then suggested purging the steam valve of any pressure before powering on and then continuing the warm up process.

Plenty of steam, no issues.

Then last week, it took at least 4 purges or leaving the steam valve open until steam appears (leaving a cup of hot water).
Now that I think of it, I haven't heard the pump activate in a while. I will check again today when I make some espresso.
I have been using Arrowhead bottled spring water. Should I be using filtered tap instead?

Salvatore's instructions for power on start up is to open the steam valve, turn on the machine and wait for it to start sputtering (4 to 5 minutes), close the steam valve, and then wait for it to come up to pressure. Does the boiler ever come up to pressure? Can you still make espresso?
One way to check the water level auto fill would be to open the water valve. The pump should come on almost immediately and shut off once the water has been replaced. The diagram that Dan posted is a good representation of how your boiler operates. If the boiler is overfilling it would explain why you are getting so much water out of the steam valve.

Salvatore recommends using bottled water like Arrowhead so I wouldn't think that is the problem.

August 2nd, 2009, 10:21 pm

Salvatore's instructions for power on start up is to open the steam valve, turn on the machine and wait for it to start sputtering (4 to 5 minutes), close the steam valve, and then wait for it to come up to pressure.

That's not what my manual says.

"In approximately four minutes or so your machine will be ready. You will know when the boiler reaches temperature the gauge will have rested at 1.2 **Important Now open the steam knob and let out excess water. It will become dry and the gauge will rise back up again."

is lifted directly.

OB #121 manual. Received 11 months ago.

#13: Post by **onthego** » August 2nd, 2009, 10:42 pm

The following is from an email exchange I had with Wendy back in March.

"Dear Ed, I want to go over a few things. Turn machine on open steam wand in
about 4 minutes the steam will start to sputter, then close steam knob,
gauge will rise in 1 more minute, machine ready....

Thanks Wendy "

Prior to that I was letting the false pressure build, releasing it, and then letting the machine warm up. However that sometimes took several attempts before it finally warmed up. Wendy's method proved to be the better way to take care of the false pressure. This is also what happens in machines that have the vacuum release valve. When the machine is powered on the valve is open, and only closes after the boiler comes up to pressure.

August 2nd, 2009, 10:56 pm

I've never had a problem.

I have tried to open it a little too soon just for kicks, and I usually got the messy bleed that Tricie seems to be describing.

Standing there waiting for four minutes seems unnecessary to me. And dangerous, if you get distracted.

#15: Post by **Richard** » August 3rd, 2009, 7:31 am

Perhaps imprecise communication between onthego and Wendy is creating confusion.

onthego, Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:34 pm wrote:Salvatore's instructions for power on start up is to open the steam valve, turn on the machine and wait for it to start sputtering (4 to 5 minutes), close the steam valve, and then wait for it to come up to pressure.

Then by way of further explanation a few hours later:

onthego, Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:42 pm wrote:The following is from an email exchange I had with Wendy back in March.

"Dear Ed, I want to go over a few things. Turn machine on open steam wand in
about 4 minutes the steam will start to sputter, then close steam knob,
gauge will rise in 1 more minute, machine ready....

Thanks Wendy "

The e-mail quote is poorly puncuated to the point that several interpretations are possible. Is this version (repunctuated) perhaps what Wendy meant?

Dear Ed:

I want to go over a few things: Turn machine on; open steam wand in about 4 minutes; the steam will start to sputter; then close steam knob; gauge will rise in 1 more minute; machine ready.

Thanks, Wendy

Cbrucecampbell's quote from the Salvatore manual supports the latter interpretation:

cbrucecampbell wrote:That's not what my manual says.

"In approximately four minutes or so your machine will be ready. You will know when the boiler reaches temperature the gauge will have rested at 1.2 **Important Now open the steam knob and let out excess water. It will become dry and the gauge will rise back up again."

#16: Post by **onthego** » August 3rd, 2009, 10:06 am

Wasn't trying to be argumentative or controversial here. The email I quoted was just the way Wendy sent it minus a typo.
The following is taken directly from an operation manual on Salvatore's web site for the Salvatore automatic (Note that none of Salvatore's machines come with the vacuum breaker):

Setting Up Your Espresso Machine
After removing your machine from its box please save the box and bubble
wrap for future shipping.
1) Plug your machine into a grounded 110 outlet.
2)With fresh filtered water, fill the water reservoir through the hole in the top,
DO NOT OVER POUR, it holds 64 oz. (3 pitchers, supplied)
3)Now turn your machine on engaging the power switch, and also open the
steam switch. or open steam knob. The pump will run to begin to fill the boiler
in about 1.5 minutes. When the pump stops the machine will begin to heat.
4)Now refill the water reservoir again to replace the water that went into the
boiler. DO NOT OVER POUR now replace the cap.
5)The machine will begin to heat, place your portafilter (handle) in the brew
head. In approximately 4 minutes a small amount of steam will be released
through your steam wand at this time close the knob. In another minute your
machine will be ready.

Here is the link. http://www.salvatore-espresso.com/auto% ... l%2008.pdf

Step 5 is almost verbatim the instructions that Wendy sent in her email.

In any event we are drifting off the original intent of the thread.

Ed

#17: Post by HB » August 3rd, 2009, 10:28 am

The instructions below are fine as long as you don't forget your espresso machine is heating. At a minimum I put the steam wand into a pitcher so the countertop won't get wet until I hear the steam billowing forth...

onthego wrote:The machine will begin to heat, place your portafilter (handle) in the brew head. In approximately 4 minutes a small amount of steam will be released through your steam wand at this time close the knob. In another minute your machine will be ready.

August 3rd, 2009, 12:59 pm

The thing that confused me is that up until last week, powering on, waiting for pressure to build, purging the steam wand and then waiting again for pressure to build and hold was sufficient.

Now the second version i.e, powering on, leaving steam wand open for 4 minutes(with a pitcher underneath) is what I have to do.

I will do whatever works but like a few of you, the "correct" procedure seems unclear. The main thing is I want to make sure my OB is AOK.

#19: Post by **onthego** » August 3rd, 2009, 8:40 pm

HB wrote:The instructions below are fine as long as you don't forget your espresso machine is heating. At a minimum I put the steam wand into a pitcher so the countertop won't get wet until I hear the steam billowing forth...

Hey I did that once, forget that is, but only once. The steam wand can be positioned over the drip tray if you don't have a pitcher or coffee cup handy.
Ed

http://users.rcn.com/erics/ · #20: Post by **erics** » August 3rd, 2009, 9:32 pm

The main thing is I want to make sure my OB is AOK.

That attitude is truly commendable. The Salvatore procedure simply ensures the steam space within the boiler is occupied by steam and only steam. BUT, short of having a OB here to play around with, I would follow his written procedure and THEN let the machine continue to warm-up for a MINIMUM of an additional 30-45 minutes.

You can bleed off the steam wand anytime during this 30-45 minutes (if you want) and the "set value" of boiler pressure should easily recover within about 30 seconds max. The idea that the machine is "ready" for operation in 10 minutes or so is, IMO, without merit. The true test would be trying it both ways, one after 10 minutes and the other after 45 minutes - keeping all the other variables as consistent as is possible.