My poor ECM Giotto needs service!

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Duncan Brookwell
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#1: Post by Duncan Brookwell »

After almost 13 years of faithful service, my 2003 Giotto ECM Classic is perhaps showing its age and in dire need of some service and repair. Over the past week or so, the pump had been coming on independently while the machine sat idle. This didn't have any adverse impact on its performance. This morning, however, he pump ran on and off as the pressure gauge swung from peg to peg sometime holding at about 1.5 bar for a minute or so before repeating the performance. Pressure was low through the brewing group, barely a trickle with the hot water wand, and no steam through the steam wand. While hot, the water temperature coming out was much lower than normal.

My intent is a tear down and self-repair. (My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools.) I just need some help with the diagnosis and the parts involved.

Assistance and sage guidance appreciated.

h3yn0w
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#2: Post by h3yn0w »

Just a guess - scale buildup on your water level probe causing frequent calls to the pump to fill the boiler , and ultimately overfill the boiler.

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Duncan Brookwell (original poster)
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#3: Post by Duncan Brookwell (original poster) replying to h3yn0w »

Nope. The probes are clean. Thanks, though.

I noticed also that it seems to boil incessantly and never releases steam out of the top (release valve?). The needle on the pressure gauge starts bouncing as it moves upwards and then spikes, but there is very little pressure. It then comes back to zero.

h3yn0w
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#4: Post by h3yn0w replying to Duncan Brookwell »


Vacuum relief valve sticking or scaled perhaps? This is a wear and tear item that probably wouldn't last 13 years. Would be good news as it is an easy and cheap part to fix.

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homeburrero
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#5: Post by homeburrero »

Agree - sputtering out the top is likely a bad anti-vacuum valve. You have two valves on the top of your boiler - one is a safety valve that is supposed to open only when the pressure gets too high. Next to it is the anti-vacuum that is supposed to be open only when the pressure is low and should close soon after it begins to build steam pressure.

A bad anti-vac may prevent it from coming up to stable full pressure, cause it to boil incessantly, and cause it to lose steam when idle which would mean frequent autofilling (pump coming on.)

See this post: ECM Giotto GFCI shuts the power off
The pic in that post has a circle and arrow to the anti-vac valve.

If it's sputtering water, it might be shorting connections that would cause it to be unsafe. Be sure you are running it on a working GFCI, and use extreme caution if you plug it in with with the top/sides off, or while you may have a water sputtering onto those exposed wires and switches. Be sure to borrow your dad's electrical safety expertise and not just his tools. :)
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

Duncan Brookwell (original poster)
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#6: Post by Duncan Brookwell (original poster) replying to homeburrero »

It is not sputtering water. Rather it is always making the "boiling" sound. The gauge need bounces and there is minimal pressure on the brewhead. I was thinking the pressurestat was the issue.

DeGaulle
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#7: Post by DeGaulle »

If your OPV is leaking hot water from the HX back to the tank this might also cause boiling sound during idling. Check if your OPV outlet hose runs hot during idling. Hence you don't build any pressure / superheat in the HX, poor thermosyphon performance and therefore low brew temp? Just a thought.
Bert

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Duncan Brookwell (original poster)
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#8: Post by Duncan Brookwell (original poster) »

Duncan Brookwell wrote:It is not sputtering water. Rather it is always making the "boiling" sound. The gauge need bounces and there is minimal pressure on the brewhead. I was thinking the pressurestat was the issue.
Correction. I let the machine heat up past my point of comfort and the valve started to sputter. I will start there. Thanks to all. I will update as I move through the fix. In the meantime, I am having Sanka.

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homeburrero
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#9: Post by homeburrero »

Once you have the anti-vac out and disassembled I'm guessing that you'll find a shot o-ring on the plunger. On my 2002 Giotto the o-ring was pretty much disintegrated. I think it's a #007, but the entire valve is not very expensive and you may want to just go with a new valve. The exact replacement is available, or you may want to try the newer style that has a barb fitting on top.

Stefano has those parts (and nice pics and descriptions of them.)
Original style: http://www.espressocare.com/products/it ... cuum-valve
Barb end style: http://www.espressocare.com/products/it ... ed-fitting
Copper washer: http://www.espressocare.com/products/it ... et-1-4-bsp

With the barb style you'd attach a silicone hose to direct any sputter from the anti-vac down through the hole in the base so that it doesn't get onto any electrical parts. I haven't tried that and not sure how much clearance you would have between the hose and your top panel. If it's really close and causes the hose to kink tightly, you may need one of these: https://espressocare.com/products/item/ ... -connector .
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

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erics
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#10: Post by erics »

. . . and not sure how much clearance you would have between the hose and your top panel.
Essentially zilch. You really need to use the original valve which LIKELY has 1/4" BSPP threading and is sealed with a copper washer. I just refurbished one I was working on but purchasing new is your best bet.
Skål,

Eric S.
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E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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