Do you think the flakes can accumulate in the "preinfusion chamber" down of the lever ? I didn't open this yet. I guess I just need to unscrew at the drain chamber down ? Do you think the preinfusion chamber can stay dirty even after some cafiza grouphead backflushings?

Damn, I never thought that buying this machine could make me do all this stuff. I am close to become an official Faema technician...I thought this machine could be "problem-free" because of the price paid but I realize it is worst than smaller stuff like the Silvia.

I will contact the woman to explain the problem and try to get a 300$ discount.

Since this stuff will all be filtered out, why is this a real problem?

Since it is a "PREINFUSION", i guess some water goes there before arrive in the showerscreen and eventually finish in my cup. Not logic?

Mark Well wrote:Since it is a "PREINFUSION", i guess some water goes there before arrive in the showerscreen and eventually finish in my cup. Not logic?

It would be if you were simply drinking water drawn through the group. However, Scott's point is that coffee acts as a filter to catch those flakes. More than likely, all of them end up in your knockbox/trash can with the spent coffee, not in the cup.

I am actually looking to find the origins of the metal/brass/chrome particles that I always have in my machine, even with some cleaning of the E61 mushroom/chamber/preinfusion and showerscreen, descaling, etc.

The context : The worst flaking phenomenon is always when I let the machine on for 1 hour or more and the pressure accumulate inside. When I pull the first shot, it is always full of very thin particles of gold color (probably brass from somewhere inside the organs of the machine???) and some bigger particles of chrome. The second and third shots I pull after have less particles, but always a little. It seems it never ends!!!

I have sandpapered the mushroom and the chambers of the E61 group (up and down). I have descaled 2 times the machine with citric acid (unplugged the auto-fill sensor) and let descale for more than 4 hours. So now, I am trying to figure out where the damn flaking is coming from.

Can it be : The boiler? The HX tube ? Can it be some parts inside the E61 at the level of the cam or lever? Can it be the corrosion of the grouphead. It is made of brass, and when I bought the machine, it was a little corroded. I have sandpapered it a little to make it cleaner.

But anyway, after 2-3 years, can you expect to change all the E61 group as a normal maintaining? Id the flaking inevitable on this kind of machine, or it is caused by bad maintenance and accumulation of scale?

Please help me! Drinking metal particles makes me enjoy a bit less every coffees (even if some says the particles are filtered by the coffee puck). I prefer pull a shot with "particle-free" water...



...to retain context, new thread merged with original topic by moderator...

How would these particles get into the cup? They would need to go through the coffee puck and the filter!

is this really secure enough to prevent you swallowing metal flakes?

if there is "chanelling" ? you would really feel safe with this?

i found this, very interesting

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/met...es-after-descaling

Did you use a detergent backflush after descaling your machine????? Hmm???? That will start a nasty flaking session that will last quite a while until the guts have finished de-flaking. There should be a warning label somewhere... But, don't worry - it will stop sometime. Mine flaked for a while after I backflushed following a descaling - but it's since stopped, but not sure how long it took.

Don't worry about it though - something else will kill you first.. - that's my new motto.

I am waiting for the lubricant, gaskets and parts I ordered from chris's website to open the lever and clean the small chamber inside. There is probably a lot of chrome flaking there...I am impatient to see this! Thanks for the infos everyone.

JS

I have been advised by several people in the metal plating business (one of them does NSF certification of other plating companies) to avoid alkaline cleaning solutions if a boiler is nickel plated. The alkalinity attacks the plating.

I received the parts and removed the lever mechanism, cleaned the room, and put grease of the cam and changed the 2 small gaskets. I installed a new valve too (the one in the mushroom chamber). I didn't have the flaking problem again after this...

I think the chrome flakes were coming from the mushroom and the pre-infusion chamber. The brass flakes were probably due because of the old valve and cam that were making friction together and liberating a bit of brass in the water. After putting some grease and putting all together, the water is clear and I have no more the problem.

So thanks for all the advice!
JS

Hi JS et all
I cleaned my 5 month old Vivi ( made by Gruppo Izzo S.r.l) machine a few days ago and have had the same issue with metal particles even after flushing. I always use filtered water and used 40g of Citric acid supplied by my retailer. I also backflush once a week.
The question I want to put to the forum and fans of E61 brew group is; are these really that great a design or is the Vivi made with cheaper materials than other manufacturers?.

I also feel disappointed having spent nearly a thousand pounds ($1600.) that I am now being advised by my retailer here in the UK to take the lever off and lubricate it. Is fair to ask for this to be repaired under warranty?
Keen to know your thoughts

TS1972: Nice thread resurrection after nearly a year!

I too encountered this problem the first few times I descaled my Izzo Alex.. but I'm pretty sure it's a problem that is common to all E61 group machines, as the original post was about an ECM machine, and others are mentioned within the thread. When I got my machine (used), it hadn't been descaled in its first year of life + the mushroom was heavily scaled.. I'm sure that played a role in how much of the chrome came off when descaling.

I remember when reading through this + similar threads, that someone suggested that aggressive chemical reactions that happen when switching from acid to alkaline (i.e. descaling with citric + backflushing one after another) can exacerbate the problem.

Also note the current thread about de-chroming a portafilter -- soaking in citric acid is the proposed solution:
How do you remove chrome from brass?

Finally, on lubrication of the lever.. I feel that it's a necessary maintenance item (every few backflushes, when the lever gets squeaky/dry enough that coffee oils alone don't seem to keep it lubricated) , and it's easy enough to DIY. Your retailer might be willing to do it this time, but not in perpetuity.. you'd be better off taking your machine in + learning how it is done.