HB wrote:Independent of your in-cup measurement, if Eric's thermometer reading is accurate (138F), the group is idling way-y-y below brew temperature. Try measuring the in-cup temperature 6x with 90 seconds of recovery time between each measurement. Does it remain flat, or trend up/down? I assume you're using the Styrofoam cup measurement technique, which is only good enough to spot trends.

Great. I'll try that this evening. Paper cup work fine too?
I sent an email to WLL Support. Waiting to hear back.

Hi,

I have your same machine. My idle temp is around 209 w eric's thermometer.

Something is clearly wrong

Regards

John

Hey John,
Can I ask what your boiler pressure is at?

Update:
Did a water temp test by letting water run through the group into a paper cup for 30 seconds. Recording the temperature in the cup and after 90 seconds of recovery time I repeat the process 6x.

Here are the results (this was taken this morning after leaving the machine on all night)

Group Temp: 167 Water Temp in Cup: 160
Group Temp: 175 Water Temp in Cup: 164
Group Temp: 182 Water Temp in Cup: 170
Group Temp: 185 Water Temp in Cup: 169
Group Temp: 188 Water Temp in Cup: 177
Group Temp: 191 Water Temp in Cup: 182

As a note my boiler pressure is set nearly to max at 1.5 bars (since I know WLL would simply say to increase my pressure).
Know whats really strange? There have been times I have turned on my machine and after letting it warm up the group temp is at 209. Almost 30 degrees hotter than usual and I hadn't changed anything.

What do you guys think about these results?

What do you guys think about these results?

I think the same thought I had on page 3 . . . except the blockage is obviously intermittent.

Then, there is a blockage in the thermosyphon system. I have searched but could not find the pic of a somewhat mangled restrictor that was installed in an Expobar.

And my thoughts on your boiler pressure are as before . . . 1.10 bar max.

erics wrote:And my thoughts on your boiler pressure are as before . . . 1.10 bar max.

Thanks Eric,
I absolutely took your statement as truth to keep my machine at 1.1 bar. However, I knew if I told WLL about these results they would without question tell me that low pressure is the cause of the low temp.
I have had such little success with customer support at WLL. They literally seem to not give a crap about it or they try and convince me that its working properly. In fact they never responded to my email I sent them a few days ago.*sigh*
What should I do? Are these results conclusive enough to prove that my machine is defective?

Here is what I suggest to remove any doubt from you (or me) that the thermometer is responding truthfully:

Go to a "dollar store" and buy something like a 2 quart pot with a lid. Drill a 1/8" hole in the lid. Bring half a pot of water to a boil with the lid slightly ajar from the pot. Stick the thermometer, top nut, and ferrules AS A UNIT through the hole as the water is boiling and generating steam. The thermometer should read a temperature very close to 212 F (depending upon your altitude and barometric pressure).

I did something similar with the digital thermometer I used to test the water temp in the paper cup. Simply put it in boiling water and it read ~210 so I know the water temp in the cup is definitely accurate.

Hi,

Mine is set to 1.1

I think you can try calling WLL and tell them u want to return it, as you are not happy. They likely have a return policy (30 day or something).

Good luck

JOhn

HB wrote:Or a thermosyphon stall due to a leak. Seems unlikely on a new unit, but we've seen the symptoms before (unit is cool on startup, recovers nicely after one flush, then cool again an hour later).

Is there a way to see if there is a leak?
After observing my machine I am seeing that the group was at 202 from a cold start. I pulled a shot and now 20 min or so later the group is at 166.