Well, I hate for my first post in a new forum to be asking for help... I've been a lurker on this site as well as a few other related coffee sites for a while, and after a few days of searching and turning up nothing on the subject, I've got to ask.

Machine: Pasquini Livia 90 Automatic

I bought it used for a great price. I was going to go with a new Rancilio Silvia, as I've used one a number of times, and it seemed like a great introduction to semi-auto pump based machines. I found this machine and jumped at the chance to eclipse the Silvia, though of course it isn't new, and hence was prone to have problems. Understanding this, I went for it anyway, as I'm hoping that by selling my trusty Jura-Capresso superautomatic of a few years I'd be able to afford the machine, a grinder (I'm thinking of going with a Ascaso I-Mini, as it's the only grinder the fiancee would allow since it's small and nice looking; I found a great deal on a Mazzer SJ, but can't have that since it's too big for the kitchen :p ), and whatever repairs were needed, and end up with a great setup for a similar price as the Jura sells for.

So.... The situation I'm encountering is that when the machine is plugged in, I turn the main switch on. The process goes:

Light on switch lights, indicating power.
Membrane-button board lights flash once (all three at one time, seems to indicate power to the control module)
Power and Boiler lights flash once together (green and orange)
Random light on membrane-button board lights up and stays lit (it can be no lights, it can be single cup light, it can be manual/program light, it can be all three lights) and the pump starts pumping water through the brewgroup. And it doesn't stop until I turn the machine off.

If I un-ground the reservoir, indicating that there is no water, the machine will continue running for about a minute (I assume this is so that it can finish its business before requiring water, as there is plenty of water in reserve). The machine will not start the pump upon initial power on if the low-water connection is not hooked up, as it should do.

Internal visual inspection looks good. I've tried cleaning the contacts on the boiler water low and high probes, but have not removed them entirely from the boiler, as I'm concerned about the procedure of removing any of those larger fittings from their tapped hole in the boiler. I've got the service blow-up/parts guide, so I have been using that as much as possible to diagnose the problem, but I have not yet succeeded, or come to any conclusion.

From just googling around for 3 days, the only similar situation/symptom was an archived conversation about the control module being bad from being too close to the boiler or whatever, though the conversation did not say whether it actually fixed the problem or not, just that it was suspected to be that problem. The control module is the most expensive part of the entire machine.... So I'd prefer to not spend more money on it than I spent on the machine, but I will if that's definitely the problem...

I've tried calling Pasquini but had to leave a message and haven't heard back yet. There is so much experience with these machines on the boards here that I was hoping that someone somewhere knows what I'm talking about and has fixed it before, however unlikely my hopes are.

So I'm really open to anyone's thoughts on this. I sincerely appreciate opinions on fixes, or ways to better diagnose my problem. I can't offer much assistance on the boards here in return for help, since I just don't know very much about espresso, but I can always help with computer/SW aquarium/audio questions via PM or whatnot, until I learn enough about this great hobby to contribute to the community.

I have owned one at one time and worked on several. I can tell you that the earlier livia 90 autos were prone to have control module problems. It sounds as though the unit is locked up in brew mode. Can you unplug the membrane from the front buttons and then see if you have the same issue ??

I remember trying that previously, though I forgot what happened. I tried it again as per your recommendation, and the same thing occurs, except without the three buttons lit when the machine starts up, and no lights lit up on the pad, orange and green flash together once then off, and then the pump ran, but surely enough it did continue running with the control pad disconnected (I disconnected the plastic molded connector from the top of the Gicar module).

Is there a way to reset the controller, or are they effectively too basic for that? Is it worth taking the module apart? I had seen that with some other controller modules, an internal part would be obviously blown, but could be replaced for very little cost with minor soldering skills. I have no soldering skills whatsoever, but this is the internet age with youtube tutorials on everything in life, and I do have the tools in my parents house to solder. I just wonder if it's possible... Hrm. I'd rather "reboot" it if possible. Heck, I'd even like to bypass it, but the fact that it's "digitally" controlled rather than an analog switch (even the semi-auto has the controller to auto-fill the boiler) makes it difficult to do that. That's one upside of the Rancilio, but the fact that you can burn out the heating element because of it is a downside.

Thank you for your response!

There's no way to "reset controller". If it were me- I'd take it apart and check it out. At this point you can't hurt it. Mr p's sells them new for 330.00. Ouch ! If you are handy you might be able to repair the old one. I have taken similar ones apart- a couple of relays and some basic control circuits. The fun part is finding replacement components- sometimes they are not even marked.

And don't forget the basic field service technique -
Take it all apart
Put it back together

Often, that is all it takes, when it is a bad or marginal contact somewhere.

allon wrote:And don't forget the basic field service technique -
Take it all apart
Put it back together

Often, that is all it takes, when it is a bad or marginal contact somewhere.

That usually is a good idea, however in this case, I'm definitely scared of losing parts or breaking something. A computer, sure, often re-seating things makes things work for whatever mystical reason, but here, there are some fragile parts in this machine (even the plastic of the spade protective covers have become very fragile and easy to flake or crack), so I'd rather not rip things apart.

erics wrote:I recommend you send James Boyt a PM. His contact info is here:

GICAR Controller Repairs?

Thank you for that information. I have that bookmarked now.

I actually called Pasquini again (I had called this morning, and they got the call, but apparently I left out a phone number digit so they couldn't call back, but had an idea of what to troubleshoot), and the tech was superbly helpful, very friendly, had me troubleshoot a few things to try to narrow it down, and we narrowed it down to the controller box (they call it the circuit board, which are the inside parts, from the outside it's just a black plastic box that controls something :p ). They actually do the repairs of the controllers themselves for much less than the cost of replacing it. That makes life a lot easier.

With the lower cost, honestly it's not worth it for me to keep digging, buy parts online to try to fix the board myself, etc. I was looking at what some of those parts cost, and while they're relatively inexpensive, two parts in a circuit board (or relays, or whatever) by themselves are cheap, but shipping is expensive, and handling is the largest cost, since I'm a small order customer... While I might end up saving $20 or something by DIYing it (which I still don't know what will definitely fix it), this way at least I know that someone who really knows what they're doing is replacing/repairing it, someone who does this for a living. It's hard to make a living half-assing repairs..

kize wrote:The fun part is finding replacement components- sometimes they are not even marked.

That's one of the strongest points as to why I'm better off sending it back to be repaired for a significantly reduced cost than buying a new one.

Thanks all again for the help. I hope to learn more from reading, and hopefully these posts help someone in a similar situation (I imagine someone else will see the same problem, I've seen a few Livia 90s on craigslist here in the southeast recently).

Well, better a late reply than no reply, right?

So I ended up sending the GICAR unit back to Pasquini for service. The service tech was prompt and responsive. I spoke to him at length, and kept in touch with him over the duration of the service. He replaced a few parts on the electronics board, tried swapping out either side of the board, but whatever he did he said he just couldn't get it to run, so the only option was replacement. I was hoping that a quick fix was in order for a few bucks plus shipping, but it ended up costing more than I bought the machine for off Craigslist. At least now I've got a fantastic HX machine (which also meets fiancee's small counter space requirement) and I'm out no more $$$ than the Silvia or CC1 would have cost me new.

The new electronics control box came back no problem, I think it was about 2 weeks turn-around time, which most of the time was spent repairing/replacing individual parts with no luck. Since I had to pay shipping back, I ended up ordering new shower screens, gasket seals, and a portafilter since I didn't have one.

Now it's a bunch of months later, and I've been very very happy with the machine in general. I only have had the nylon venturi-assisted frothing tip, which has worked decently, but I have yet to get more than 20% microfoam in my pitcher, (20oz pitcher filled half-way). Espresso has been embarassing for the most part of my experience with the Livia, as I didn't have a grinder yet, so I used locally roasted, grocery store purchased and ground espresso coffee. It worked, but you could absolutely count the very few days before the coffee oxidized to the point of little to no crema (which as I understand it is waaay beyond the freshness, since ground coffee freshness dissipates within minutes to hours).

My fiancee purchased a grinder we found on craigslist locally in my new location in Michigan, and it's been fantastic. It's a Nuova-Simonelli MCF in red. Great grinder, seems to be as consistent as I could ask for, and it's stepless and dosered. I've been trying my hand with WDT, which helps a lot, but I'm still not very good at making espresso, or frothing milk for that matter.

I just finally budged and ordered a naked portafilter, a 2 hole steam tip, and the stock 4 hole pasquini steam tip, so those should allow me to advance the quality of my home-barista-ing experience. Also I descaled the machine recently following the directions on this site, and while it went well and I'm satisfied with the result (clean machine, and my vacuum breaker valve is more responsive, yay!) it did NOT take the 5 minutes many people suggested it takes in that thread. I spent about 2 hours between mixing the powder, running the solution through the machine, making sure to overfill the boiler, cleaning up the mess around the vacuum breaker, draining the machine, draining the machine, refilling clean water, draining the machine, etc. It's especially a pain since I have been using distilled water from the store with some brita water mixed in to keep the water conductive (auto-fill function). From now on I'm using the recommended ratio of half distilled/RO+DI to half brita.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to prevent damage in the future to the GICAR electronics module? The vacuum breaker no longer sputters, so i'm not concerned about leaks, but heat is still somewhat of a concern. I have seen mentioned to cover the area in aluminum heat-reflective tape, but not quite sure if this is recommended or not.

Thank you all for your help, and thanks for this fantastic board with so much information that you have all shared. I look forward to the day where I can make sound recommendations to others on this board.