Greetings. I thought I'd post an update to my attempts to achieve some temperature consistency. I have come to see the value in having a data logging capacity because often times I don't catch all of the info. I also see that in order to be of any help to others you really need to chart these results. The best solution so far has been to video tape some of my pulls.

Eric has been extremely helpful in finding a working method. Here's what has been working fairly consistently "for me" with my Volante's set-up. First shot of the morning has a long idle (warm up) of approx 1.5 hours. I flush about 10 oz with the PF in the group until the Fuji readout hits 189. Then I remove and dry the PF and build. It takes about 2 minutes from the end of the flush until the Fuji readout show the temp working its way back up to just shy of 194 F when I then pull the shot. My Fuji readout then starts in the 205 and settles in to 203.+ range. If the readout drops below 201 I can taste the souring. I will admit that I find it harder to judge the taste of increasing levels of overheated shots ... to a point and then its a sinker.

The shorter idle shots are not as consistent, depending on idle length and readout. Generally a short idle requires a 4 oz flush and then I watch my readout until its just clicked to 206.9 or close.

In the end I am pleased that I added the E61 adapter. It has fine tuned my routine and gives me valuable feedback when I'm trying to vary the shot's temp.

If someone needs video I can shoot it for you, otherwise I'll just let this thread fade away until and if Terry posts his Bric mods.

Once again, I apologize for the lack of my scientific methods and equipment. I didn't want to just help myself and then walk away.

By the way, and this is unsolicited, I had been meaning to try the Big Truck Espresso and this thread motivated me to finally order some. Delicious, in a word. Reminded me of Black Cat but not as overpowering with the bittersweet chocolate AND didn't upset my stomach like B.C. Great with milk in a 6 oz capp, my wife loves it as an Americano. As a straight espresso as robust as my tastes want to go.

I had a Bric at one point.

I did PID my Bric (tc on back side of boiler near bottom) for a bit but found it killed the Bric's fair steaming ability.

Adjustment on the Bric is mainly via Mater pressurestat which has a wider deadband than I like. But I found that I could tune the pressurestat to give me a fine brew and also give me dependable steaming. But at that point, I don't think it is much different than any other E61 HX. And I DO love E61 HXs! There exists a CEME pstat version that has an adjustable deadband...

The great thing about all this is that while you're playing you get all these fantastic espressos - pure torture!

I have an automatic volumetric controls Bric with rotary pump. I have done a lot of testing/playing to achieve/test a temperature stability routine, and have found (using a Scace thermofilter) a very rock solid temperature consistency as below...I will try post a video as soon as my camera is back from repairs (it takes decent mpg's but got sand in the lens from a Mexico trip).

But, what I have come to find after experimenting is with the way mine is set up (I think we are at about 2400ft above sea level or so) - insulated boiler, pressurestat bouncing from about 1.05 to about 1.15 bar, is that from a long idle I flush 5oz (which is only about 2 seconds after the hissing/sputtering ends), and then pull the shot about 20seconds later. I get 199 degree shots that only vary about ± .5 degrees during the entire shot.

No problems with cooling during the shot at all. If anything...I see temps rise, not fall.

Grant

I was out looking for info on what Dan calls rebound (the pause between the flush to get rid of the steam, and the extraction), and I wound up back here. Terry suggested upping the Bric pstat to give it more stability and I do recall having to do that. Worked better all the way around and made it an enjoyable machine - pstat 1.3 as I recall.

I was playing around late this evening with sticking a tc in and then locking the pf in and found that the squishy gasket that I'm using seals nicely around the tc wire - too nicely as at first I was trying to use that little gap to let water out while I was measuring temp. So I finally just ground some coffee and measured it that way. Rock solid through the pull, though too high so I turned the pstat down a skitch. Course I pointedly only did a 7 sec flush so I should have expected that - needs more like 10... (45sec pause)

Here is where using Eric's adapter and doing a number of test shots with different flushes would help a lot...

Yet again, I put myself in beginners shoes: read Dan's article (for the 14th time)(each time I understand it better) and extracted what it meant to me (in my words, so any mistake is MINE!):
---
From Dan: particularly for HX: flush - pause - extract

Flush amount affects temp at mid to end of pull

rebound / pause after flush before pull : "15-35 sec, certainly less than 1 minute."
short = no temp hump to small temp hump at beginning of pull
long = medium to big temp hump at beginning of pull
---


something about HX love...

Grant,

This morning I tried your method with the exception that I used a 2 count after the end of the hissing/sputtering instead of watching the volume of water that was flushed. I could see the shot temperature stability you wrote about. My machine fluctuates between 0.9 and 1.10 versus yours of 1.05 to 1.15. Also, I'm just a few feet above sea level.

The big difference in my results were that my thermocouple which is positioned at the water path intersection as prescribed by Eric's instructions read 209.8, humped to 210.3 and finished down around 209.4. No complaints about the stability just how hot this sucker persists on getting. Out of curiosity what are you doing for your short idle shot?

I'm contemplating Kristi and Terry's advice of upping the pstat.

Terry, anything new to add since your posting a couple of weeks ago?

edwa,

I don't know if this is any help, but I've been struggling to fine tune temperature on my Salvatore for almost a year now. I can hardly believe that others are flushing so little (on other HXs) after the sputtering stops. I need to do a 6-7 second count to get the temp down to about 206, as measured by Eric's thermocouple (it takes at least 10 seconds just to get to 212 degrees and the sputtering subsides). This means that from a HOT idle, I end up flushing about 8-10 oz of water. I then wait 30 seconds for a 203.7-204.4-203.5 hump (I have determined about a 1 degree difference between thermocouple temp and 'puck' temp by using a Scace device simultaneously). If I go about 25-35 seconds between shots, I can keep a pretty stable 202-204 on the thermocouple. But even a 3-minute lapse will require another 6-oz flush. I have adjusted the pstat down from 1.05-1.25 to 0.95-1.15 already and don't want to go much below that, so I'm living with flushing a lot (which is getting to be a bit of a pain with the pour over).

I know it's a completely different machine, and I am by no means an expert, so it maybe comparing apples to oranges, but try flushing more, maybe until you get to 206 on the tc, pause and then go.

Good luck.

remember that the temp at Eric's tc is 5-10 a few deg F above the temp in the brew chamber, at least for the first 5 seconds.

Please excuse my ignorance. By 'brew chamber' do you mean where the coffee puck is being brewed (filter)? If so, this is not corroborated by my simultaneous tc device/Scace readings on an Omega meter.... I've had up to 2.5 deg F differences, but nothing approaching 5-10 deg F. Of course I could be measuring or monitoring incorrectly....

kanoyu wrote: 'brew chamber'

yeah, directly above the tamped coffee grounds, below (not touching) the screen.

kanoyu wrote:I've had up to 2.5 deg F differences, but nothing approaching 5-10 deg F. Of course I could be measuring or monitoring incorrectly....

The difference depends on when you measure since the two readings merge later in the shot:


Temperature within the valve chamber exit (blue) versus thermofilter (red)