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La Spaziale S1 Brew Boiler Composition? - Page 2

Postby Dogshot on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Louis wrote:Commercial machines like the Vivaldi are expected to be fed with appropriate water in order to prevent scaling (water softener). In a commercial environment, descaling is just not practical: with the amount of water going through, scaling would happen too quickly and down time to descale is lost sales.

The question I would ask myself after seing those pictures is rather: "Where is that nickel now?" Did it went with the descaler (not really an issue) or did it go, slowly dissolved, in the brew water?

In the later case, and if it is a health concern, is it worse to drink nickel rather than copper or lead?

I would be more worried about copper and lead than I am about nickel. While scaling is bad for boiler/heaters, it can be considered good for health, as it lowers the contact surface between metal and water, reducing metal dissolution in water. On the contrary, water softening (along with heat) can augment metal dissolution, as in this example from the WHO: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2560737/

I have not done much research into this but HB threads on the subject are many and some patient Google Scholar research could help understand if this is a real issue or not.

Personally I would say that water coming from a HX tube or a small boiler (like one in a Vivaldi), drank in very small amounts (60ml at a time), is probably not an issue. One could ask questions though on frequently drinking tea mugs out of huge brass steam boilers on espresso machines.

But then I digress and we are far from your original flaking question.


My long-held understanding is that water that is low enough in hardness to not scale is not very tasty for espresso, and will also leach metals from the boiler. So, water hardness is a balancing act of having to be just hard enough to taste good and just soft enough to not have to require descaling too often; but descaling is eventually required.

So little is currently understood about the role of metals in neurological disorders; why some metals are found in the brain in higher concentrations, the role of those metals in neurological disorders, and how they are deposited. Maybe the body can successfully flush regular low intake of metals like copper and nickel. No one really knows right now. If the brew boiler on an S1 is copper, it is small enough that I would be confident using it. Otherwise, I would prefer to find a stainless steel boiler.

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Postby JohnB. on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:22 pm

dialydose wrote:The new VII's no longer have plated steam boilers.


Haven't looked inside a recent S1. So now the outside is bare brass/bronze?
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Postby dialydose on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:28 pm

JohnB. wrote:Haven't looked inside a recent S1. So now the outside is bare brass/bronze?


Yes, it was a little strange. I ordered a new VII in June. Had to send it back for repair of an inlet valve issue. Instead they just sent me a brand new one from the new batch from Italy. This was mid-July. The first one had a plated boiler, the second one did not. Jason at Chris Coffee said that they were no longer plating the boilers. Not sure how this will affect the boilers long term. Hopefully it was more cosmetic than anything else, but I guess we will see.
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Postby JohnB. on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:37 pm

Probably just a cost cutting measure. Maybe the Italians finally got their own EPA & plating costs are skyrocketing as they have here.

Whatever the reason it would seem that flaking plating is definitely not going to be an issue on a new S1V2, not that it ever was.
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Postby Dogshot on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:41 pm

It may also have to do with the EU ban on the use of nickel in many applications that come in contact with the human body.

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Postby Louis on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:58 pm

dialydose wrote:The new VII's no longer have plated steam boilers.

dialydose wrote:Yes, it was a little strange. I ordered a new VII in June. Had to send it back for repair of an inlet valve issue. Instead they just sent me a brand new one from the new batch from Italy. This was mid-July. The first one had a plated boiler, the second one did not. Jason at Chris Coffee said that they were no longer plating the boilers. Not sure how this will affect the boilers long term. Hopefully it was more cosmetic than anything else, but I guess we will see.


So... the steam boiler is no longer plated. What about the brew boiler?

Do you have pictures of the new non-plated boilers?
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Postby dialydose on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Louis wrote:So... the steam boiler is no longer plated. What about the brew boiler?

Do you have pictures of the new non-plated boilers?


The brew boiler is still plated. I have a picture of the steam boiler, but it is telling me the file is too big (over 256 KiB...the file is 350 KiB). Basically looks like bare brass.
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