Longtime lurker here, and first post. I wanted to get feedback on the La Pavoni P3V2 2 group espresso machine I just bought (for next to nothing). I have searched through most of the threads involving this machine, though most of them are a documentation of overhauling and fixing the p3v2 and never really come to any resolution and none discuss performance. I brought the machine to a local repair shop that has a good reputation to see where the machine is at, since the shop where I bought it knew nothing about it. The machine itself looks great, but that being said I did not fire it up. The machine will be for home use, 10 or so shots a day. Also does anyone know of an owner's manual?

Here is a photo of what the machine looks like incase someone else knows it by a different name.

It's a decent machine. No frills, nothing fancy, but it has a very good shot quality for a non E-61 style solenoid group machine. Generally speaking, if you have a machine that'll give you around 9 BAR of adjustable pump pressure, and an adjustable water temp of 195-205*f., I (I) think that the operator can make up for any of the machine's shortcomings. If you don't already have a good grinder, you'll absolutely need one.

The P3 represents Pavoni's first internal motor design for a two-plus group machine. Its grouphead is different from the previous P90 grouphead design, and from the PUB/BAR series of Pavoni's that succeeded it. Its overall build quality is similar to an Astoria machine of the same age (mid'80's-early '90's), with the exception of the Pavoni's two plastic front corner pieces, which break & scratch easily. I've had this same machine at home, and I was pretty happy with it. It may or may not have the anti-vacuum valve, so leave a steam wand open while you warm it up, then close it when there's steam coming out.

You'll have to temp surf it quite a bit. Its group will hiss & pour water erratically when it's engaged after having been at rest for several minutes or more. Take out the portafilter, run the group until the water settles down. That's a start...

The plug looks to be a 110v? Some of these were 110v, and the voltage can be verified by looking at the grouphead's solenoid coil. I wouldn't trust the manufacture plate on a machine that old. The coil is the black or blue square on those things hanging off the groupheads. They'll say 110 or 220v.

If you have the required voltage and amperage, why not screw a water line onto the pump, stick the other end of it into a tank of water & see what happens? There's enough help on this site to walk you through whatever the tech says it needs. This machine is as easy as a Volvo of its same age to work on, and it's also strangely fun.

The Crossroads badge is from Crossroads Espresso, which was the exclusive US importer of Pavoni commercial machines for over 25 years. They originated in Burlingame, Ca, and moved to Oregon where I worked for them on and off for 4 years. I did the sales, and the bench testing of each machine that was imported. It wasn't uncommon to have ten machines at a time up on the long work bench, all heated up and getting their ETL testing. Crossroads fell into the economic abyss of 2008, when only well-run coffee companies with great customer service survived.

Post up what the tech said it needs, and if you can use basic hand tools you'll get all the info you need to do it yourself.

Chad C. wrote:It's a decent machine. No frills, nothing fancy, but it has a very good shot quality for a non E-61 style solenoid group machine. Generally speaking, if you have a machine that'll give you around 9 BAR of adjustable pump pressure, and an adjustable water temp of 195-205*f., I (I) think that the operator can make up for any of the machine's shortcomings. If you don't already have a good grinder, you'll absolutely need one.

I've been passively looking for an espresso machine and grinder for about 1 year and found a Bregant nr1400 grinder the week before coming across the Pavoni. I completely disassembled it and cleaned everything, it looks as it has not been used extensively. From what you're saying here, it seems the Pavoni will do as good or better than most home machines (with proper technique)?

Chad C. wrote:The plug looks to be a 110v? Some of these were 110v, and the voltage can be verified by looking at the grouphead's solenoid coil. I wouldn't trust the manufacture plate on a machine that old. The coil is the black or blue square on those things hanging off the groupheads. They'll say 110 or 220v.

Correct, the plug is a 110v, as well as stated on the faceplate. That's good info on checking the coil.

Chad C. wrote:Post up what the tech said it needs, and if you can use basic hand tools you'll get all the info you need to do it yourself.

Will do! I am pretty sure I have most of the tools that are necessary. Should be any day now.... Thanks again for the info.

Sure, it'll compete with high end home machines, but your skills have to be up to it. Study the hell out of the techniques section of this site, tune the pressure & pump perfectly, temp surf it, keep it clean and you'll be happy with the results.

It's steam wand and tip aren't going to give as good a milk texture as the high end prosumer machines, but espressoparts.com has some good replacement options. Two of their fancy portafilter baskets would improve the shots a noticeable amount. My moderately upgraded 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano will blast through the twists & turns of Hwy 101 as well or better than a modern Sports car because it's a slick car, it's been made as modern as it can be, and I'm quite something behind the wheel of it. I think the same should apply to your P3.

Incidentally, your grinder's internal design was purchased by La Pavoni, and used in their Zip grinder which I own. It's a solid design, but I would really like to have something without the traditional doser. It's got a sentimental value to me because it quietly came home from Crossroads espresso a few used parts at a time, and I've used it daily for 14 years.

Is your machine back from the shop yet?

So I heard back from the shop today, machine will be coming home tomorrow. The tech said the machine is in rough shape and hasn't seen much maintenance, ever. But, everything appears to be working. Here are some of the photos he sent me:

Chad C. wrote:The plug looks to be a 110v? Some of these were 110v, and the voltage can be verified by looking at the grouphead's solenoid coil. I wouldn't trust the manufacture plate on a machine that old. The coil is the black or blue square on those things hanging off the groupheads. They'll say 110 or 220v.

So as you said, it looks as if the machine is 220v. The plug and plate are 110v... ?

Machine is home, back from the shop. All I really heard from the shop was:

"it works, its decrepid, one group wasn't working but we got it working, don't put any money in to it...."
That'll be $85 bucks.


I brought it home, plugged it in and its still warming up... Seems take almost two hours to come to temp. I started to clean it up and once the old dust and coffee grounds are removed, the machine actually looks pretty nice inside. I'll get some fresh pics up tomorrow. Some of the wiring needs to be replaced but nothing major.

Looks pretty status-quo to me. It's filthy, but not beyond investing in. It's not a La Marzocco Strada, so the technician may not have been too interested in it, or impressed by it. Don't let some hipster pee-pants talk trash about your machine. If you're able to confirm & repeat a specific group temp and dial in an accurate pump pressure, the rest comes from your knowledge & subsequent techniques. It's hard to get a bad result from a Synesso grouphead, making getting a great one that much less rewarding to the operator. I guess you have to identify what parts of the pursuit appeal the most to you: making the coffee, or drinking the coffee. I think either is totally legit, but my cup collection isn't nearly as impressive as my equipment collection...

If you're plugged into the right voltage and your plug is wired correctly, the warm up time should be about 20 minutes until the cycling of the pressurestat begins. If not, you'll want to use a digital multimeter to check the continuity of your heating element, which clearly needs a new gasket.

This quick tutorial shows you how to use a multimeter:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU

You can check its continuity with the element in or out of the machine. I'd yank it out and have a look at it. If it needs to be replaced, these guys have always been good to work with in my experience. Here's a link to a new element and gasket for the P3:

http://www.espressoparts.com/P_76

The best food safe cleanser I've found is a strong solution of dissolved dishwasher detergent. I recommend putting a big pot of water on the stove on Low, & pour a half cup or so of Cascade-type powder into it. Keep it on Low and use the solution with your choice of cleaning implements. It's worked well for me a few times.

Here's some pics of a machine I did this way. I wish I had pics of it before I started, it was almost as filthy as yours is, but required few parts:









Time, detergent, and a Scotch Brite pad will make it pretty again. Buy or borrow a cheap multimeter if you don't already have one. They're pretty essential to this kind of work. If you haven't already checked out the diagram of your grouphead(s), here's the link:

http://www.espressoparts.com/p1p3solenoidgroup


You should buy new grouphead gaskets (f60 is their part number), and new grouphead screens.


You can either entirely disassemble & restore it, or do a "major service" on it. It's really a matter of personal preference. These days I tend to do the major service unless the machine is particularly special. Keep going, and post your progress : )

Upon looking at the heating element it is quite obvious part of the wiring is fried... A little surprised the tech didn't mention and/or see this. This is probably the reason it took so long to heat up?

After removing the heating element, I saw there was no gasket. A shop has them in stock, meanwhile I rewired the element with 10 avg wire. The machine now heats in 20 minutes. Its a rainy weekend, so I'll be scrubbing and shinning rest of it... More soon

My god, that looks crusty! Glad you replaced the wires and found an element gasket. Was there a bunch of mineral build-up visible through the hole for the element? From the looks of the outside, I'd bet there was at least some. Still, it could have been used with a filtration system that lasted longer than expected.


I'm also surprised that the tech didn't see that. Most automotive service franchises have some kind of standardized checklist that they go through as part of an inspection or service of any kind. Espresso techs should also have such a thing in place to catch obvious faults like the element wire, and so the customer knows exactly what they've paid for. I have such a checklist, and I always tell the machine owner what I did to their machine.

I don't do this kind of work full-time, but I make enough per year to support my sports car habit. Coffee is every bit the hobby of mine that Euro cars are, but I have yet to sell a car to buy an espresso machine. These things are fun to mess with. They're interesting enough to keep your attention, but not so complex that you'll never be able to fix it.
Keep posting progress & pics : )