Hello HB!

I just stumbled upon this eBay auction and linked YouTube video, another example of a GS3 mod to add a Strada MP style setup in the group. I have been close to getting the GS for a couple years, and just want to know if I should just stay stock, or look at getting some kind of MP pressure profiling mod machine.

I have played with a Shot Brewer recently and loved it, but I'm not in a position where this machine will be used to not have steaming capabilities. The Shot Brewer pressure control, preset profiles, and profile recording is really amazing. Will this MP style mod make me happy when I compare them, or will I really feel a huge difference in loss of control?

Anyone have experience with this Heightech Espresso setup, or bought one? I know there have been some mods done by owners here, but I like the idea of someone with a lot more machine knowledge than me just doing the work, and keeping the machines warranty in place.

Thanks!
Jeremy

Maybe someone who has done the mod and lived with it for a year or two will report on their experience.

My experience is limited to the many high end shops I have visited that have machines with pressure profiling capability, where not a single one uses the gauge for anything other than a hood ornament. It is simply too difficult to manually replicate a profile shot after shot, and the benefits of doing so have not been definitively proven. Why introduce yet another variable into the process?

Marshall,
Good point about adding variables, if I use it for some light commercial catering it introduces a huge barista to barista fudge factor and it is likely to lead to inconsistency. And the mod is not cheap exactly, that is a lot to pay for something that becomes decoration after a while.

Bak Ta Lo wrote:Hello HB!

I just stumbled upon this eBay auction and linked YouTube video, another example of a GS3 mod to add a Strada MP style setup in the group. I have been close to getting the GS for a couple years, and just want to know if I should just stay stock, or look at getting some kind of MP pressure profiling mod machine.

I have played with a Shot Brewer recently and loved it, but I'm not in a position where this machine will be used to not have steaming capabilities. The Shot Brewer pressure control, preset profiles, and profile recording is really amazing. Will this MP style mod make me happy when I compare them, or will I really feel a huge difference in loss of control?

Anyone have experience with this Heightech Espresso setup, or bought one? I know there have been some mods done by owners here, but I like the idea of someone with a lot more machine knowledge than me just doing the work, and keeping the machines warranty in place.

Thanks!
Jeremy

Jeremy,

I've done this mod to my machine, and does make a difference in that I can "Profile". I use my GS3 at home, for 5-7 shots a day at most. I rotate coffee's just about every couple of days, so I like to play around with all of the variables. That being said, it is a very small window of profiling, and not the easiest thing to control, and probably no where near as consistent as electronic profiling. Using a Synesso Hydra in the cafe, and the electronic profiling, with a 5 second pre-infusion, and then a ramp down after X number of seconds, makes for a much more consistent, and repeatable shot, that I don't have at home. Do I get great shots? Yes, but every time, no. Would I spend the money to do it again? Probably not. Personally, if I could afford a Single group Hydra, I would sell the GS3.

I also have to agree with Marshall on this, 98% of the shops I've been to, either don't have a clue how to use a MP, or just don't bother. It's straight on, Straight off, no ramp, no profile, nothing. This is the reason most Cafe's prefer EP models, or similar.

My thoughts are this:
MP = 10% Great shots, 60% Good Shots, 30% sink or heavy milk shots
EP = 20% Great shots, 70% Good shots, 10% sink or heavy milk shots

And my opinions may be way off base of others, I'm just saying what I find between the EP and MP machines at my disposal. (I say EP because the Hyrdra has an electronic 4 stage pressure profiling system, which really requires the Barista to click it full on, then move paddle to the middle near the end of the shot, then off, not much manual feedback there)

Just my .02 cents.

Justin

Jeremy,

I bought one of Dave's (Hitech Espresso) GS/3s with the Strada modification already in place. I bought a PID'd QuickMill Alexia from him back in 2007, so I knew he was legit and did great work. Add to that the fact that his price with the modification in place was considerably cheaper than what others' "best price" was for a stock MP, and the decision became easier.

Once you place the order, Dave orders the machine from LM USA, so you'll get the absolute last version of the machine; mine was made the month prior to my placing the order. LM freight ships the machine to Dave, who takes a few days to do the modification and run the machine for a few days to verify there are no leaks issues before it is put back in the original shipping container and shipped to you via a freight carrier.

When talking to Dave I let him know that I was going with the GS/3 over others I was considering because I could run it off the reservoir. Having a Cimbali Junior running off a bottle previously, I did not want to go that route at all. He (or his team) adjusted the engagement of the pump perfectly, turning on the pump just before the inlet holes allow water to enter the grouphead. I simply move the lever to just past the center of the throw and wait for the pressure to rise on the manometer. I apply back pressure to hold it at my desired preinfusion pressure - usually 2-3 bars - and then move it full left once the puck is fully saturated. If I want to do a slow ramp up on the pressure, I just let go of the backpressure, and the pressure will slowly rise to about 7 or so, so for a full 9 bar you need to move the paddle just a tad to the left at a minimum. To ramp down, just move the paddle slowly to the right and you'll see it ramp down until it kills the pump. Truth be told, while the ramping down of pressure looks cool, I'm not convinced there is any difference in the cup, though the slow ramp up seems to produce better mouthfeel.

Like others have said, the profiling band is a bit narrow, but it's the only way to get 2-3 bars preinfusion if running off the reservoir. Once I retire where I no longer have to move every few years for work, I'll plumb it in and adjust the microswitch to let inlet line pressure hit the puck BEFORE the pump engages, but that's years away.

So, would I get the machine with the modification if I were to do it all over again? Absolutely. If I want it to perform like a plumbed in stock MP, I just flip the paddle full left after I allow the puck to saturate. If I want to play with pressure, I control the ramp up. You get the best of both worlds in my opinion. Now, would I spend ~$500 on top of a stock MP to do the modification if I was running plumbed in...that's a tough one. I have no experience with a stock one, so it's hard to say.

Never used an EP, so I can't comment there.

Hope this helps.

I did also remember some talk about a GS3 EP being in the works? Or was it a shot brewer based on the EP. Whichever the case that may be worth considering/waiting for?

Thanks for the very helpful replies guys, that was exactly the feedback I was looking for. As there is a local LM dealer here who can do repairs if needed, I feel better about just going stock if I get the GS3. Before I was worried not getting the mod was leaving something on the table. If the difference in the cup is not a game changer, and the standard machine is more consistent between operators, the standard setup doesn't feel like a compromise.

After an initial year with the stock GS/3 and the last two years after its modification, I would not want to go back. And if I had a new GS/3, I would do the modification again before plugging it in or pulling a first shot. My principal reasons are the already well-covered advantages of flow control and pre-infusion capability with reservoir operation. It can also make an otherwise sink-shot drinkable, and can help bend some under-roasted coffees away from tragic degrees of sourness. And it makes the whole process more enjoyable: those who go with the paddle version instead of the volumetric can take their "hands-on" preference that much further.

But use is selective. I still prefer the GS/3's standard pressure ramp-up with some coffees, while others I like better with profiles I've refined for them.

Regarding the consistency argument, anything with more flexibility in its process will yield more variability. But what matters is whether the varied results are mostly above or below the automated result line - and that will depend on familiarity and practice. After all, sacrificing useful control to achieve poorer but consistent performance isn't exactly the prevailing object of the H-B forums. (Besides, a modified GS/3 can always be operated as a stock machine with no down-sides, so adding the manometer takes away nothing from the GS/3's original capabilities.)

I certainly agree with Marshall about the feature being almost universally ignored and unused in commercial environments. But home baristas enjoy a completely different situation. First, we don't have the pressures of time and production, and we can afford the extra minute to check and pull to a profile. Second, cafe professionals tweak and recalibrate doses and grinds all day, but home baristas seldom have the volume or cost tolerance for extended trials before pulling their morning shot(s). So the added ability to manage flow on the fly can help coax a very passable result from a sub-optimal dose or grind.

Well said, Anthony. We are hobbyists and a large part of a hobby is to screw around with things.

Agree. Very well said.

Jeremy, will you be running plumbed in or off the reservoir?