A few weeks ago, I was having some troubles with my Linea group boiler overheating, so I decided to install at PID to get some stability.

The parts I have installed are:
Fuji PXR3 TCY1 4VRA1 (Originally set up for Celsius, I changed it to Fahrenheit)
Tyco SSR-240D25
J-type thermocouple from EspressoParts

Everything is temp wired right now until I am sure I have all the bugs worked out.

It seems I am still experiencing an overheat condition out of the group heads, although it is no longer heating so high that it throws the thermal limit switch on the 1st group like it was doing prior to the PID install. The SV of the PID is at 195 (started at 200) but water coming out of the group is being measured at 211 with a thermometer poked through a styrofoam cup. Hissing, spitting and steam are coming out of the groups, even with the brew temp showing ~195

In the interest of giving WAY too much information, here are all the settings in my PID.

BLOCK 1
Stby = off
ProG = off
LACH = 0
AT = 0
TM1&2 = 0
AL1 = 50
AL2 = 55
LoC = 0

BLOCK 2
P = .5
I = 225
D = 4
HYS = 0.0
CooL = 0.0
db = 0.0
bAL = 0.0
Ar = 0.0
CTrL = FUZY
SLFb = 4.0
onoF = ON
TC = 1
TC2 = 1
P-n2 = 2
P-SL = 50
P-SU = 250
P-dP = 1
P-F = F
PVOF = 0.0
SVOF = 0.0
P-dF = 0.0
ALM1 = 0
ALM2 = 0
STAT = off
PTn = 1
Sv-1 = 50
TM1r =0.00
TM1S = 0.00
(these values stay the same through Sv-8)
Mod = 0

BLOCK 3
P-n1 = 0 <-- Had to change this one from 2 before it would even start heating)
Sv-L = 50
Sv-H = 215
dLY1&2 = 0
A1&2hy = 0.5
A1&2oP = 000
PLC1&2 = -3.0
PHC1&2 = 103
PCUT = 0
oUT1&2 = -3.0
rCJ = off
GAin = 1.000
AdJ0 = 0.0
AdJS = 0.0
di-1&2 = 0
STno = 1
CoM = 0
PYP = 34
Ao-T = 0
Ao-L = 0.0
Ao-H = 100

and as you may have guessed, I have set all the dSP1 through dSP13 to 0 so I could see all the different menus.

Thanks in advance for helping this PID noob - it's been a trying, but interesting experience so far.

-Stubbie

I was hoping that someone with experience of this controller would have answered, but seeing that no-one has so far, I can make some peripheral comments. I have always used Watlow controllers on the La Marzoccos I have, so the Fuji parameter names don't mean much to me.

Looking at the problem empirically it appears that the actual temperature in the boiler is higher than the PID is telling you. I can think of 2 possible reasons; you have the PID set to the wrong probe type, or the PID has an offset temperature set, so what it shows you is not what it is reading. I can't tell from the parameter names you listed if one of them is a temp offset; you would need to look in the manual for that. You don't say whether your probe is mounted in the thermowell, or compression fitted to the boiler. If it is in the thermowell, it might make sense to to remove it and check the PID/Probe combination against chilled water and boiling water to see if the readings are in the correct range. (It is pretty difficult to estimate the temperature of "chilled" water, so this one may not be too much good)

In my experience, there should be a temperature drop from brew boiler to group head of between 4 and 10 degrees F, so your marked rise definitely isn't right.

I have to be honest and say I'm not familiar with all the settings you have because my Fuji is stock but I have to think that your problem is related to the temp probe not "seeing" the brew water correctly. Since this problem started with the stock sensor and now with the thermocoupler, maybe the problem is in the boiler itself? How clean is the boiler's inside? I know it's a long shot but the settings I recognize above, you don't have any offset that should cause what you are experiencing. The thermocoupler you have should be J and your Fuji is set correctly for it (P-n2 is set to 2).

The other question I have is does the boiler light flicker the same as the Fuji's C1?

Stubbie wrote:J-type thermocouple from EspressoParts

Are you sure about the thermocouple type?

What color are the TC lead wires where they connect to the PID controller?

I ask this because a mismatch would cause the controller to underestimate the real temperature by a lot if it expects type J, but the actual sensor is type T or type K.

Jim

Thanks for the replies!

Nick/Mitch - The probe is compression fitted into the boiler. I was able to get the old thermowell off without too much trouble. I should have taken a moment to peek inside there with a flashlight to see about scale, but I didn't. The thermowell itself should be some sort of indicator I would think though, and it looks rather good. The C1 light flickers right along with the boiler light.

Jim - Unfortunately I don't know the differences between different types of thermocouple types just yet. I am assuming J Type as that is what EspressoParts has it listed as. The color of the wires coming off are light blue and red.

Here is how it is wired.

PID:

2 <-> Blue from Thermocouple
3 <-> Red from Thermocouple
4 <-> 4/A2 on SSR
5 <-> +3/A1 on SSR
8 <-> Directly wired to neutral
9 <-> 1/L1 to "Common" wire on old thermostat

SSR: 2/T1 has Red and White (2 wires) from "Norm Closed" position on old thermostat. The white wire comes from the thermal switch located on top of group 1.

The setting that has me wondering is in the 3rd block.

Out 1&2 being set to -3

The guide says that is the Output value (MV) display and Displays the value of output 1.

Again, many thanks...

-Brian

Stubbie wrote:The color of the wires coming off are light blue and red.

That matches a type T. The color code for a type J is different.

If you do actually have a type T, and the PID controller thinks it is a type J, then the readings will be off by a mile.

Example: if the real boiler temp is 220F, and the ambient temp at the PID is 80F, then the measured voltage from a type T would be around 3.427 mV. If the PID thinks the sensor is a type J, however, it will still read the same 3.427 mV, but will conclude that the temperature of the boiler is 104F. That is a 116F reading error, in the direction that overheats the boiler.

Jim

The thermocoupler description is for the J type. Here is a picture:

Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of my SSR, I can get one tonight and then you will be able to see which wires go where but I think your PID is installed correctly. I would look in the boiler.

This might help: http://www.omega.com/techref/thermcolorcodes.html

In my picture is the wire from the thermocoupler sold by EPNW. It is the blue sheathing. You can see the blue and red leads in the picture attaching to #2 and 3 respectively in the above picture. I should have been clearer with my explaination.