HB wrote:Originally they shipped directly from the factory. Now there's a planned network of distributors involved to handle installation, repairs, and support, just like the organization of their commercial line.

Now I'm the one missing something. How does using the same distribution chain already in place for the (better-built) commercial machines justify doubling the price? If the Linea (as it seems) is a more more expensive (robust) construction sold at the same pricepoint with the same distribution network then once again it just appears that LaMarz (and Franke) are shafting the American consumer with the GS3.

Like I said before - not a winning business model. If I had been on the waiting list before I wouldn't be anymore.

Marshall wrote:Forget everything that was said about pricing and distribution. The new rules are:

It sounds to me like this is just LM's polite way of announcing the GS/3's cancellation. It clearly serves no market effectively at this price and when considered in terms of LM's other product offerings.

Mark

I never intended to buy a GS3, since two Cimbali Juniors are (arguably) enough for any crazy home barista. And I have seen the GS3 up close and personal and admired it even if I never thought seriously about buying one.

BUT, and this is a huge "BUT" --- this is a "niche" machine that is no longer going to be purchased by the overwhelming majority of people who used to occupy that niche, because of the price. And that is a very serious problem, a problem of epic proportions for the company who designed and executed it. The potential buyers have other choices and they will make them. But imagine if you were a company who had gone through all this effort and work and expense, and finally ended up making the product at nearly 2x the intended price?

Don't get me wrong, there are some very rich people out there, with slab marble counter tops and Sub Zeros galore, who will buy this machine. But there aren't that many very rich people out there who care THAT MUCH about espresso to want to go through the effort of actually making it with this type of machine. Most very rich people who would want to drop a lot of money on an espresso machine, are going to go for something that is much easier to use --- like a superauto, even a commercial superauto. They are not going to want to fuss with grinders and tampers and all that other crap.

I think they will be lucky to sell 25 of them at this price in the first whole year of USA sales, and it could be 5 years before they sell 100. And it is a shame, a real shame, because the niche for which this machine appears to have been designed is no longer going to be interested, and the whole project on balance looks to me like a colossal waste of time and effort.

And to Dan -- I think what you have written about pricing is completely divorced from the marketplace. The machines you compare this product with, like the Synesso, are not going to be considered for purchase by hardly anyone reading this board. But the GS3 WAS, emphasis on the "was."

And to the rest of you, those GS3 owner-wannabees: get a grip! We're talking about an espresso machine, that's it, something that will make espresso for you several times a day. If you really thought that this machine was going to make a huge difference in the quality of what you are drinking every day, I think you have been seriously deluding yourselves. If you want better espresso, start using betting coffee. That will make much more of a difference than any upgrade beyond the first couple of thousand dollars, which would be the total I'm talking about for a very good machine and a very good grinder, combined.

ken

Marshall wrote:Let's be clear here, Dan. "$4,500" was not a price picked out of the sky by dreamy, rumor-mongering consumers. It was the U.S. price decided by the company's owners, publicly announced by them and then repeated by them every time an update was requested over the past year and a half.

The dollar has dropped about 13% since then, and I think there would be some sympathy, if they adjusted the price accordingly. What they have done is something entirely different, and their customers are entirely justified in being upset about it. You are effectively blaming the customers for believing La Marzocco and Franke.

Wow, that UL certification must have really stung!

HB wrote:Doubling would be $9000, but let's not quibble about rounding. As I understand it, the first GS3 models were shipped directly from the factory to the consumer, not delivered and installed by a distributor from their inventory. In other words, again as I understand the murky details of years past, La Marzocco planned to skip the distributor network and their requisite markup. That's no longer the plan.

The $7-8K price point when putting in such a high level of service is not the problem. I think that the price is hard to, as others here have mentioned, is the level of workmanship that has been seen world-wide. If the attention to details and materials were at the level of Malachi's prototype, then the new business plan is easier to swallow. Of course this price point would then render the 1 group Linea obsolete, unless the plan is to decrease the price. Again I agree with JonR10 that I'd have to wait to see how well built it is before parting with that much money.

HB wrote:BTW, nobody seems to want to answer the question I posed earlier: Why would you expect the GS3 to be priced significantly below the Linea one-group? Does the Linea hold charming cachet that commands a premium?

Dan, I thought I did, albeit indirectly and with (I hope) some humor. I don't know what kind of business world you work in, but in mine, people don't promise one price and then nearly double it just before delivery without serious damage to their reputations and long-term business prospects. "You must have realized we were blowing smoke at you for two years" does not pass muster in any reputable business line, and Franke is certainly not saying anything like that.

There is leeway in the business world for unanticipated changes in circumstances and a lot of leeway (enshrined in the Commercial Code) for an isolated and obvious mistake. But, we're looking at something else altogether here: a major blunder. If Franke has its act together, I would expect them to issue some kind of apology.