After much reading, deliberation and helpful pm exchanges with some of the senior members of this forum, I think I have limited my new machine choices (replacing a Vitrano) to the Elektra A3 (I can still get one) and LM GS3. I know... you might be wondering how could I land on those two seemingly disparate choices? Lets just say that a complicated (confused?) mind weaves a tangled web of logic.

One niggle with the GS3 - it will be in my home office, where I typically drink about 5 or 6 short shots over the course of the day. I understand that the ridged basket could make shots of 14 grams or less a bit inconvenient, and I would probably need another tamper (which one?). I realize the controversy over whether I can pull decent shots with this amount of espresso, so would one of these machines be more forgiving than the other? Would the ridged basket of the GS3 be an ongoing annoyance? Would I be advised to find another basket? Should I give up the phallic edge of the Elektra and just get the damned GS3?

Cheers

Buy lots of baskets? There are a lot to choose from, and hopefully some truly well-made ones on the horizon in the not-too-distant future. Even if they cost $25, baskets are a royal pittance. I wouldn't let this play into my machine choice much: it's not like you sign a basket exclusivity agreement when you purchase a machine.

Also, are these two machines such terribly disparate choices? I own each. They're both awesome machines. Given the right basket and the right coffee (and naturally, the right barista hands), these machines will each produce good low-dose espresso. I'd give the La Marzocco some edge on being somewhat more straightforward to control temperature and being more tolerant of mega-doses, if you ever get that itch. Still, with a La Marzocco triple on the Elektra you can make a perfectly obscenely up-dosed shot.

Just get the one that you can afford and like the looks of the most, would be my advice; and in either case feel free to get different baskets.

Don't make your machine choice based on a basket. I have the A3 and use the LM ridged double, ridgeless double, straight sided triple, Faema style ridged double, Faema style ridgeless triple..... You can plop a 58mm basket in any 58mm portafilter.

As to the machines, both are very nice and will last a lifetime if properly maintained. A big plus to the GS3 is turning off the steam boiler when not needed. If you are a straight shot drinker with an occasional milk drink, it would be nice option. The A3 also requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit so you may need some wiring done. It is also plumbed in and out so it would need a water line or feed it from a static water jug on the floor along with a bucket to drain into. The GS3 will run off an internal tank. The A3 also pumps out a lot of heat with that 6 liter boiler.

shadowfax wrote:Buy lots of baskets? There are a lot to choose from, and hopefully some truly well-made ones on the horizon in the not-too-distant future. Even if they cost $25, baskets are a royal pittance. I wouldn't let this play into my machine choice much: it's not like you sign a basket exclusivity agreement when you purchase a machine.

Also, are these two machines such terribly disparate choices? I own each. They're both awesome machines. Given the right basket and the right coffee (and naturally, the right barista hands), these machines will each produce good low-dose espresso. I'd give the La Marzocco some edge on being somewhat more straightforward to control temperature and being more tolerant of mega-doses, if you ever get that itch. Still, with a La Marzocco triple on the Elektra you can make a perfectly obscenely up-dosed shot.

Just get the one that you can afford and like the looks of the most, would be my advice; and in either case feel free to get different baskets.

Thanks for your comments Nicholas. The LM vendor has just made me an offer I can't refuse, so the GS3 it is! Can you recommend a good place to buy baskets? From your response it sounds like more basket options are in the works, yes? I have read that I might need a 57.5 mm tamper with the LM ridged basket - do you know if that is the case?

Grab a cup of coffee - you'll be up late: Paradox: The LM double basket

cannonfodder wrote:Don't make your machine choice based on a basket. I have the A3 and use the LM ridged double, ridgeless double, straight sided triple, Faema style ridged double, Faema style ridgeless triple..... You can plop a 58mm basket in any 58mm portafilter.

As to the machines, both are very nice and will last a lifetime if properly maintained. A big plus to the GS3 is turning off the steam boiler when not needed. If you are a straight shot drinker with an occasional milk drink, it would be nice option. The A3 also requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit so you may need some wiring done. It is also plumbed in and out so it would need a water line or feed it from a static water jug on the floor along with a bucket to drain into. The GS3 will run off an internal tank. The A3 also pumps out a lot of heat with that 6 liter boiler.

Thanks for your response Dave. I did just commit to the GS3, although I absolutely love the look of the A3. Initially I thought that being able to shut down the steam boiler would be quite an advantage for a non milk drinker. But I recall reading in a post on this site (sorry can't find it at the moment) that the steam boiler helps to maintain temperature stability for pulling shots. If that were the case I guess it would need to be left on, yes? I mentioned this to another senior HB member and he was sceptical. I am going to look for that post some more - it is possible that I misunderstood.

erics wrote:Grab a cup of coffee - you'll be up late: Paradox: The LM double basket

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Eric - even after quickly browsing this thread (and others), I can see the amazing level of depth and minutia addressed by forum members in various topics. Definitely much to be learned. I can see that a wide array of baskets and an extra tamper or two should be among the collection of appurtances for this machine.

Ken

cannonfodder wrote:A big plus to the GS3 is turning off the steam boiler when not needed. If you are a straight shot drinker with an occasional milk drink, it would be nice option.

Ken, you're right to wonder about this. AFAIK the GS3 does not have a separately controlled steam boiler and cannot be shut off short of aftermarket integration of a dedicated switch for it. I am also not sure how the electronics in the machine would respond to never being able to heat up if you did this. In any case it's not advisable, because as you say the GS3's brew boiler is fed by a heat exchanger through the steam boiler that provides it with preheated water, which prevents the boiler temperature from tanking after a long, rapid series of shots, flushes, etc.

FlyingShot wrote:Thanks for your comments Nicholas. The LM vendor has just made me an offer I can't refuse, so the GS3 it is! Can you recommend a good place to buy baskets? From your response it sounds like more basket options are in the works, yes? I have read that I might need a 57.5 mm tamper with the LM ridged basket - do you know if that is the case?

I'd suggest just getting a standard 58mm tamper and avoiding downdosing with the standard LM basket; save it for 16-17+ gram doses and get some straight-sided and/or shallow baskets. The Faema E61 12 and 14 gram baskets are 2 possible options, and you can get them from lots of vendors. I was a holdout for these baskets for ages and recently picked them up from Espresso Resource, which offers some iterations of these baskets sourced from a much more meticulous basket maker. They seem to be made of a nicer-than-average stainless that's finished markedly better than you get elsewhere; I've never seen baskets that look this nice, both in polish and in consistency, just looking at the holes in the light. No blocked holes and they all seem to be really well-shaped. I don't know that it makes a difference at all, but they're pretty cheap in any case. I haven't messed with them much but I'd say on the GS3 you can easily pack 15-16 grams in the 14 gram E61 basket, probably 14 on the 12 gram (though dosing lower is probably preferable). Just in case it's not apparent, these espresso resource baskets are not the rumored high-precision baskets that are supposed to be trickling down the pipe later this year or next year.

Anyway, my go-to basket is still the Synesso ridgeless 14 gram basket, which on the GS3, like the LM basket, has a 'neutral' dose in the 16-17 range but can be updosed workably to 18-19 grams and also downdosed to 14-15 grams and still tamped. I think I'd want a smaller basket on the GS3, though, if I were doing those low doses regularly. I don't, so probably best to ask another GS3 owner for advice there. Anyway the Synesso ridgeless double basket can be got straight from Synesso. You have to call them or email to place an order, but it's cheap and they are really nice about it in my experience. I get all my showerhead screens from them for my GS3, I find theirs to be much better-made than La Marzocco's with fewer sharp edges to cut up my fingers and the nylon bristles on my group brush.

cannonfodder wrote:Don't make your machine choice based on a basket. I have the A3 and use the LM ridged double, ridgeless double, straight sided triple, Faema style ridged double, Faema style ridgeless triple..... You can plop a 58mm basket in any 58mm portafilter.

As to the machines, both are very nice and will last a lifetime if properly maintained. A big plus to the GS3 is turning off the steam boiler when not needed. If you are a straight shot drinker with an occasional milk drink, it would be nice option. The A3 also requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit so you may need some wiring done. It is also plumbed in and out so it would need a water line or feed it from a static water jug on the floor along with a bucket to drain into. The GS3 will run off an internal tank. The A3 also pumps out a lot of heat with that 6 liter boiler.

Dave, I found the quote - from Andy S in reference to the La Marzocco Espresso-only Shot Brewer:

AndyS wrote:The GS/3 uses a HX in the steam boiler to preheat inlet water for the brew boiler. Seems like simply eliminating the steam boiler is going to change the thermal performance of a shot-pulling machine -- at least for multiple shots in a relatively short time frame.

This seems to suggest that the steam boiler ought to be left on even if the machine is used only for shots, yes? Perhaps you or someone else has experimented with shutting off the steam boiler and observing the impact on the brew boiler temperature? This would be nice to know, as it would be desirable to shut off the steam boiler in situations where it is rarely used.

Ken

Okay, when I was writing this another response came from Nicholas - thanks Nicholas - so it looks like both boilers must remain in operation.

One of the advantages of the GS3 is the pre-heated brew water inlet. However, if you only make one or two shots in a row, the brew boiler will recover quickly even without the pre-heated water. The pre-heated water won't really affect the first shot or two. The real issue is setting the PID which has been set to consider pre-heated water. The parameters will change if you disable the steam boiler and start sending cold water to the brew boiler.

So, you can disable the steam boiler and still make exquisite shots. I don't think its worth it but only you can decide that. If you never make milk drinks then maybe but if you ever do make milk drinks, then the trouble of resetting the PID and changing your pre-shot routine probably aren't worth it.