CK Java wrote:What do you mean by "extraction weight"? Are you weighing your ground coffee or using a visual shot glass with oz markings?

I'm not Dick, but I assume he's referring to Brewing ratios for espresso beverages that advocates liquid comparisons by weight instead of volume.

I really do like using extraction weight as a parameter. This is very easy to do and requires no thought. As an example, my bag of Evocation Spitfire suggests 17 grams coffee to yield 18 grams espresso in 31 seconds at 202 degrees. This eliminates the variable volume of the crema.

Dan,

Using the chart, I guess I'm not doing it right, even though the espressos and cappuccinos taste very good. My typical drink consists of 15+/- grams of ground coffee drawing 2 oz of brewed coffee, not counting the crema, in 25 to 30 seconds. This shot weighted out at 61 grams of brewed drink. Way off using the chart for a double espresso which I use for a double cappuccino. I use a timed grinder and it varies .5 gram routinely. If I reduce the brewed coffee to a 50% ratio I wouldn't have enough coffee for a double cappuccino. Presently I make a double cappuccino with 2 oz of extracted coffee, 1.5 to 2 oz of steamed milk and a monks head milk foam top. Using the chart and reducing my drink weight to 50%, a double espresso would only make a 2 to 2.5 oz cappuccino (espresso and milk) plus milk foam.

I'm sure I don't understand the chart.

N.W.

I'm not sure what's confusing. You make 25%, lungo espresso extractions. If you like that, that's great for you and important for you to know that you make a rather different beverage than, say, me (I shoot for the 50-60% range for my espressos, in general). If you're counting the volume of your espresso and ignoring the crema, it's worth noting that that is not a standard practice in judging espresso volume, to my knowledge.

As far as not being able to make a proper double cappuccino with a lower volume of espresso, I would respectfully disagree. The rule of thirds that you refer to is not actually traditional in the usual sense of that word. This post from James Hoffman (former WBC champion) might be helpful in explaining that. I make my cappuccinos using a single or double shot in a 5 oz. (for single) or 6 oz. (for double) cup and fill it to the top with microfoamed milk. The ratio of milk to foam is whatever it works out to be given how much foam I have incorporated when I'm steaming. It's always less than 50% foam to milk. So the drink has a much more dense, wet, and somewhat less thick foam on top than a "rule of thirds" cappuccino. It is what it is. I like it, and saying nothing of tradition, it is very close to the type of cappuccino you'll get at a third wave shop in North America (although they typically will give you a more ristretto shot, something in the range of 70-100%).

We all have a different style of espresso and drink preparation. That's fine, great even. Tools like brew ratios do a lot to help illuminate differences in espresso preparation style and help give us some sense of each other's tastes even though we can't taste coffee together. I hope you're not confused because you expected that everybody else makes espresso like you! We have a wide array of different tastes on this forum.

Nicholas,

Thank you for your information. First, I noticed my GS3 had sneaked up to almost 10 bar of pressure and reset it, then I start over setting the grinder grind setting. I agree cappuccino is what you get used to and I know the drink has evolved many times in volume and mixing from the original steamed coffee drinks in Italy. My first espresso drink was a hand ground and I assume a double shot from a large lever machine outside of Siracusa Sicily just before Noon in July 1951. The owner/barista of a restaurant on top of a mountain 4 Km from town, tried to explain what he was doing by showing the espresso equipment and pointing (He didn't speak English and I didn't speak Italian). He was using what I now know was a double basket port-a-filter, but he finished the drink with lots of foam on top in a 5 or 6oz cup with sugar (sugar not asked for). It was the first cup of coffee I ever drank that tasted like the coffee smelled while he was grinding it in his hand grinder. I'll never forget that drink - the best coffee I ever drank in my 19 years of life.

I guess I haven't evolved with the different methods of making a espresso, cappuccino or latte over the years for what I observed looked like he made the drink with about 2oz of drawn coffee and I didn't even know about crema so I don't know if there was crema on top. He used maybe 1 to 1.5 oz of milk and because he steamed the milk first he put dry foam on top that formed that beautiful brown ring around the edge of the foam that made what I now know as a Monk's Head.

I tried the short coffee drink and did not count the crema using the chart and my neighbor who is younger and tastes better than I can, agreed with me the drink had a weak coffee flavor and had a predominate milk flavor. However! I still enjoy the experimenting and always look forward to an even better coffee drink - a drink that is equal to my first espresso drink in Italy. I will try the chart again and thanks for the explanation.

N.W.

HB wrote:I'm not Dick,

You're not, Dan. In fact you're very kind.
p.s.
Ooops, I realised it's already past the first day of April...

Marshall wrote:Delighted.

Little OT, but I couldn't help noticed that GS/3 has very strong following around here, despite it's $6,000+ price tag. Couldn't help also noticed, that you are listing that you own what is relatively less popular grinder in NA. May I ask then whether you do not subscribe to advantages of "conical burr" theory, or physical size of the grinder had something to do with it? I can imagine that you surely can afford Nino, why then ProM (just curious newbie)?

Sakae wrote:Little OT, but ....

Yes, it is OT. So, I'll refer you to this thread: How I Avoid Single Dosing