Shawn, I'm finding it hard to believe your offset is that high. Even though the shot brewer doesn't have pre-heated brew boiler water, it should be about 1.5 f. Did you flush the group before you locked in the pf? Then you also discard the first three second's readings.

It's possible the Fluke needs calibration but it worked fine down here in Florida!

La Marzocco's (Linea) are known for having a "cold nose" but I haven't found that to be true on the Strada.

The reason I am leaning towards believing it is that it is coincidentally the exact the same number that wildbwilson was told a few posts ago.
And I did run this several times with different amounts of flushing before hand. It's always stable at 4 degrees cooler. Even after changing the set value from 196 to 200. The reading on the fluke also increased by the exact same amount.

When messing with the PID offset, remember the purpose of that setting, and what you're actually measuring versus what you might think you're measuring. If the PID probe is in the brew boiler, it isn't measuring brew temperature. While there might be some correlation between the temperatures at some point(s), they are really two separate things and can diverge significantly depending upon machine setup.

mitch236 wrote:Shawn, I'm finding it hard to believe your offset is that high. Even though the shot brewer doesn't have pre-heated brew boiler water, it should be about 1.5 f.

Compared to the offset on my GS3, this sounds right...mine is set at the offset it came from the factory @ 3.4F, I run my machine 95% of the time with the steam boiler off (steam PID set to 68F). I have a Scace and have done extensive tests in both configurations and the group temp is spot on. Rebound with the "steam boiler off" doesn't exhibit the lag you might expect...maybe another 30-40 seconds from my experience.

Geez, I was so embarrassingly wrong before. There must have been some kind of psychological thing going on. My espresso always tasted different than the shops, but I just attributed that to a different grinder, preinfusions, etc.

I remember trying different temperatures and when I was 2 degrees cooler, I imagined I tasted sourness and when I was 2 degrees warmer, I imagined I tasted bitterness. I always assumed the offset was set correctly due to this. On my Alexia as well as this one. I'm starting to think the "bitterant" I found in the compressed air, and all the other imagined maladies were all due to this.

Now that I adjusted the brew temperature, based on this fluke, my espresso completely went up another level. I think I actually might be able to grasp what people talk about when they say things like "balance" and other such things. I am now getting the same "finish" that I experience at my favorite shops. The tongue sensation that makes you smile a minute or 2 after drinking an espresso. mmmmm.

It's also strange that the extractmojo was evaluating the "colder" shots at a 18.5-20% extraction. There must be other variables to that I'm not getting.

I don't have a Scace here, but just confirmed with LM that these machines don't have an offset programmed in. The probe is measuring the actual temperature of the water near the top of the boiler inside the machine (and the PID displays this). And the offset on the Shot Brewer is such that the PID will display 3 - 4 degrees F higher than the actual brew temperature, just as you guys are finding as per Scace measurement.

Is it possible on the Fuji PID to program in this offset so I see brew temps?

shawndo wrote: Now that I adjusted the brew temperature, based on this fluke, my espresso completely went up another level.

Well, that's exciting. Dang I'm itching to get a grinder in the house. Tomorrow, Warrior372 is heading my way and bringing in a Cimbali grinder to jam with while I wait for my Versalab. We'll be making some Redbird and Ritual's blend of three El Salvadors on my Shot Brewer. Can't wait!

I just read through the display-mask section and figured out how to unmask the offset menu settings. It's remarkably archaic and reminds me of setting unix permissions.

- Hold down "SEL" for 5 seconds and wait for "P-n1" to appear. ("Stby" and "P" will appear first)
- Hit the down key a few times until "dSP5" is displayed
- Hit "SEL" and the current value will show. (Mine was 216) This setting hides the following menu items
PVOF
SVOF
ALM1
ALM2
- Change this to 192 using the down arrow, and hit "SEL"
Done. Now just verify

- Wait for the menu to time out and go back to the Temp display.
- Hold the "SEL" for 3 seconds and wait for "P" to appear
- Hit the down key a few times and check if you see the PVOF and SVOF items.

If you do, then it worked. Next will be to actually set the offset....

Shawn, where did you rent your Scace from? I would be interested in doing the same for my machine.

I actually borrowed it, but you can rent one from JimG
/member/JimG/

I may still rent one just to see if I get the same reading from another thermometer

I thought I would have to set the PVOF as well as the SVOF, but everything worked as expected after only changing the PVOF. (I thought it would behave like the GS3 if I only changed one)

- Hold the "SEL" for 3 seconds and wait for "P" to appear
- Hit the down key a few times until you see PVOF
- Hit "SEL" and input the offset. (I put in -4.0)
- Hit "SEL" and wait for the menu to time out

The temperature will automatically heat up to the offset. If you had it at 204 before setting it (expecting 200 at the group) after setting this, it will heat up to an actual 204 right away.
(I thought the display would change from 204 to 200, instead of heating up the 4 degrees) There is no obvious indication that the offset is active. (You can go back in to the PVOF to make sure your setting is still there)
I confirmed it with the fluke.

This also changes the displayed value when setting the desired temperature (SV) so there is no need to mess with the SVOF setting. I guess that is for something else.