So... then the 1st step will be to put it to a bath in stronger decalcifier solution.

Are you referring to the Procon pump?

LaCrema wrote:
Are you referring to the Procon pump?

To entire machine at the end
So the pump moved... but it's still hard to turn the shaft. I mean I feel noticeable friction when turning the shaft with fingers. Bearings, I guess.

Further disassembly:
1. Brewing group.
a) I noticed that the pipe that goes inside the hx is made of rubber. I rather expected copper.


b) The hx seems to be fixed to the boiler forever. WD-40, help!


2. Pressure gauge.
It doesn't look promising Anyway it seems that this is not what one can see in M15. At least I can't recall such model of gauge. Additionally - there are contacts at the rear side of it.

That gauge definitely doesn't appear to be a LaCimbali factory part, it also has electrical inputs, maybe it was lighted? I've never seen anything close to it in all my "new" parts searches but maybe for some weird reason it could have been supplemented at sometime. I would think it would have been branded with the LaCimbali name like on my Junior.



The "saddle" as I describe it that holds the bolts for the HX, the inner gasket between the saddle and the inside of the boiler is now the only thing holding it in place. Refer to the pictures on my M15 post and you'll see that the holes in the boiler aren't threaded but drilled. My bolts are pretty much corroded in place in the saddle, I'm going to purchase another one from TSI along with the proper 220v element that they started to carry after I had to settle for the wrong 220v straight element. When you purchase new studs for the saddle there are two options available, steel and stainless. I've heard that the regular steel ones might be the better choice for metal compatibility, but of course the steel ones are all rusty so who knows? Just an FYI, I had the boiler seals on mine tested, mine are all off white in color and are over 60% asbestos so wear a mask if trying to sand away any of that gasket material. It's hard as rock and even a razor will only shave off a tiny bit at a time. Refer to my method of removing it, you might have the same results as me?

The dipper tube was rubber, that's very strange?! I've heard of plastic and copper like mine, but rubber is definitely weird! Keep posting pics, I'm very interested in seeing more of your machine! Take a boatload of pictures during your tear down for reference, it will come in handy later on, trust me!

Of course I checked your thread about M15 before I even decided to buy mine... but still some new (for me) facts appear.
It seems that in my M15 there are three gaskets:
1. between the group and the heat exchanger collar,
2. between the heat exchanger collar and the outer surface of the boiler,
3. between the inner surface of the boiler and the 3 bolts support (or "saddle").

Right now I'm trying to separate the hx from the boiler... so the gasket from pt. 2 above is problematic. I think I'll need to remove a side wall of the boiler just to grab the hx from the inside and try to move it. I don't want to play around the hx collar from outside, to keep it in good geometry.

So I guess that the three bolts are inside the support/saddle threaded openings, right? I couldn't find anything that could help me to unscrew the bolts from it. Any suggestions?

Asbestos... yummy. Only the gasket between the bolts support/saddle and the inner wall of the boiler is made of it, or all three of them? Or maybe more in entire machine?
You had a hunch to check it! I wouldn't expect asbestos in such device. The temperatures are not that high and there's no need to be secured against flames (at least not inside the boiler).

Yes, the tube was made of rubber... you can even see that on the picture - it's not straight.
After cleaning I'll check how the opening for the fresh water in the group looks like, to see how copper pipe could be mounted. Now everything inside is black of decades of coffee.

Your gasket material looks exactly like mine. Take a torch used for soldering copper pipes (propane or MAP gas) and try to burn that stuff, if it doesn't catch fire or simply burn away then you have the asbestos gaskets like I have on mine. The new gasket material is not asbestos. I researched the material that TSE had available before buying it. While combing through several posts about the M15 the large end boiler gaskets I saw were green in color. The company that supplies that material has a data sheet on its tolerances and it's perfect for this application, but I wanted an even better material that was slightly softer and had a higher temperature rating to make sure it really makes a tight seal. At first I was going to order the sheets and make my own gaskets, but when it came down to looking at how much time I have to spend on making my own gaskets, I decided that my time is needed elsewhere. When I received my shipment from TSE, the new boiler gaskets are made from the higher performance blue gasket material! Sweet! I posted the manufacturer of that gasket material and data sheet links in one of my posts, I'm pretty sure it was in my M15 project post.

Here are some pics from the TSE website to help understand how the gaskets go together in your machine:

https://www.tse.at/us/shop/index/cat/c1 ... ruppe.html


https://www.tse.at/us/shop/index/cat/c2 ... oiler.html


The inner saddle basically comes off when you use a putty knife to carefully lift it away or separate from the inner part of the boiler. The heat exchanger tube might get destroyed in the process and will probably need to be replaced anyway.... BUT, it doesn't look like TSE sells that heat exchanger tube so either; A: Be really careful not to destroy your tube, B: Find a new replacement tube from another source, C: Settle for a generic heat exchanger tube that closely resembles the stock tube. My guess is that you'll probably end up replacing the heat exchanger tube, the rubber dipper tube and the inner saddle, that is unless you want to try to remove those studs and then the gasket material stuck to the saddle like cement.

I have to take a break from my machine and keep pounding it into my head that yes, these are kinda rare machines and not everyone carries spare parts for these things anymore. This project is kinda like owning a rare motorcycle, there are only so many parts available and if something breaks either you will have to find the new parts, get creative and cross reference something or fabricate your own... I think we would both prefer to come across the new parts while doing an Internet search.

You're going to replace at least one of the outer boiler gaskets, you might as well do both of them at the same time with better gasket material. The outer aluminum rings will need to be protected while descaling the boiler. Slide one ring all the way over to the other side, wrap with plastic wrap and submerge only half the boiler in the 10% citric acid solution or whatever you decide to use and keep those rings free from sitting in that solution. Rinse with water, lots of warm water to clean off the descaler solution.

Take things slow, enjoy the changes between the condition it is in now and after cleaning things up. If you find any other parts suppliers for the M15, post it because TSE has been the only one I've found with this many parts specifically for this machine!

Keep the pics coming, I really like to see how your machine is similar and different than mine!

-Eric

I'll need to replace the two external gaskets for sure... the problem is how to dismount the hx without destroying it. Yes... I still hope that I can do it
I already have two ideas. I'll let you know about it if I succeed. And yes - I really hope to keep the original support/saddle
But this are tasks for next days.

Meanwhile... let me post further pictures and further questions to keep us busy
What these:


and this:


are for?

Maybe the two openings from the 1st picture are for the group temperature management? But taking under consideration the diameter of the thread... the channel inside would be really tiny. Anyway they are completely offline in my M15. Due to the amount of dust inside I can't say now if these are blind.

I couldn't find any other LaCimbali group head like yours other than the newer updated version that has a larger area to plumb for temperature stabilization. I'm wondering how they would have plumbed it for stabilization on your HX since the holes appear to be pretty small?

I'm just speculating, but I think the arrow pointing to the large bolt on the bottom of your HX is a one way valve to keep water from being flushed back into your boiler? I have something that appears to be similar in the HX on my M15, but I could be completely wrong about my guess. Here's a picture of what the HX looks like on my M15.





Here's a picture of what the HX looks like where it bolts to the boiler. The dipper tube on my machine is copper and goes directly into the boiler versus a heat exchange. I still need to clean off the old boiler gasket material, but it has been cleaned in the 10% citric acid solution. I plan to lightly buff this part and replace all the gaskets.




As I was saying earlier, just take your time with the rebuild since it's not your only machine. I accidentally gouged the area where the filter screen goes into because the whole HX slipped in the vice I was using to remove a bolt, hence the damage. I should be able to fix it to hold the screen in place, the machine actually showed up without a screen... weird?





I need to research more about possibly using a lubricant for the gaskets. I've seen some people use something that appears to be lubricant, maybe DOW 111 on the boiler gaskets between the HX and boiler, possibly in other areas too? I'm not sure if this is necessary or advised, but I'm going to post this question in the lever forum just to get another angle on this. Have you found any other sources for parts for your M15 other than TSE? I can always use more resources!

You're in luck if you break your heat exchanger. This site has what appears to be the heat exchanger for your machine. It's #42 in the exploded view.

http://www.astramgroup.com/EspressoMach ... CI0101.htm

I think I'll end up checking the features by myself... applying pressure to one opening and expecting a stream from the other.

Our groups are really different. The reason is obvious, but I expected just some slight mods. In my group even the place where the group lays on the boiler looks different - there's an additional 10-20 mm deep cavity that expands the hx volume. The dipper tube in my M15 is also way thinner. The same for the opening that finally let's the brewing water to flow to the coffee.

I still need to clean off the old boiler gasket material

Someone told me recently to use a spray for cleaning carburetors. It removes everything what's not made of metal. Next days he should give me a can to check. The fluid completely annihilates rubber, paint, oils, adhesives, soot... well, we'll see

I need to research more about possibly using a lubricant for the gaskets.

You mean when applying new gaskets? I know that lubricants are helpful when applying a sealing that fits tight... or when sealed element needs to expand the sealing. Usually even a liquid soap is fine for that. But for obvious reasons we are avoiding soap in coffee

Have you found any other sources for parts for your M15 other than TSE?

Yes! And the surprise is that I found it in Poland, when looking for some parts for my Carimali GT grinder.
http://www.atp-czesci.pl/ - unfortunately no English translation and prices available just for registered customers.
They also have a hx for my M15, same as you posted above. I didn't expect such old parts available just like that.