La Cimbali Junior pump runs continuously when power is on

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
tamhai
Posts: 4
Joined: 9 years ago

#1: Post by tamhai »

Short version:
I have an older la cimbali jr. It's an automatic. The pump now comes on immediately when the machine is powered on and water runs out of the group head. This followed a descaling and a trip to the repair shop to fix a short. Repair guy was stumped and had no idea why it started run on it's own constantly. It can only be powered on when plugged in to a non gfci oulet. It trips a gfci outlet. Searching around online I found others with this issue where it was suggested to be a stuck solenoid or a brain issue. Any other suggestions? Because of the gfci thing I'm suspecting the more costly to fix brain box, but staying hopeful that a $50 solenoid can fix it up and I can drink coffee again!
If anyone would like the long version for more info let me know. I didn't want to write a book for my first post. :)

ira
Team HB
Posts: 5529
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by ira »

Start by finding the problem that's setting off the GFI. If you've got a good ohmmeter, pull the plug, turn the machine figure out which side is connected to ground and attach it to those leads and start pulling connections till the short goes away It might be a very high resistance connection and some meters might not be able to see it. Try the heater to start as that's the most likely problem. And remember you might need to pull all the leads to a device before the short goes away. If it was me, I'd do things in this order:

Boiler
Motor
Solenoids
Switches
Brain

Take pictures before you start so you can put it back together.

The motor should be controlled by the brain box, so you need to figure out why the brain box is commanding it to be on. A disconnected water level sensor would do that and I guess a badly installed switch panel or a bad brain box.

Ira

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jpboyt
Posts: 220
Joined: 14 years ago

#3: Post by jpboyt »

Hello,
The time between turning the power on and the pump running is the clue. Instantaneous pump activity means the pump is starting on it's own. A delayed start means that the pump is responding to a command. Instant on is normally a welded contact in the pump relay or a shorted triac on the control board. This depends whether the machine uses relays or triacs to control the pump. Replacing the relays is relatively cheap. I happen to know a guy. Hint.
jpboyt

tamhai (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 9 years ago

#4: Post by tamhai (original poster) »



So this is the only interesting thing I found today. Looks like the trace that starts one over from the right is broken and little burnt. Now, I have no clue about circuit boards, so I have no idea if this relates, but it happens to be right above one of the relays. This board is from inside the brain box. Outside the box is a large relay. It is open with the machine off which I assume is how it is supposed to be.

MathewC
Posts: 31
Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by MathewC »

If you're in Washington D.C. and not Washington state, I'd be happy to open my machine so you could test between the two. I can also help solder if needed.

tamhai (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 9 years ago

#6: Post by tamhai (original poster) »

Thanks, but I'm Washington State

jpboyt
Posts: 220
Joined: 14 years ago

#7: Post by jpboyt »

Hello,
I would suspect that you have a carbon trace under the relay and it is conductive. I have replaced a relay or two only to have it continue to conduct. On one board I sawed a hole through the board as it had arced and the charcoaled board was conductive. Or the relay is welded like I suggested previously. And I am the jpboyt that repairs circuit boards for a living and I am in Washington state not D.C. which really should be Washington A.C. but I digress. Took a look at the picture again and the trace that is burnt goes, I suspect, to a light. If you will notice it is running to the NC lug on the relay. The only function that I have ever seen on a control that is handled by the NC (normally closed) terminal is a light to show that the machine is plugged in.
jpboyt

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tamhai (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 9 years ago

#8: Post by tamhai (original poster) »

It's been a while - We've been on vacation. We ended up deciding to give the shop that repaired some wiring for us another crack at it since they guaranteed the repair for 90 days and it still wasn't working right. They called yesterday to say it's working great and that they sent our board to someone else to be repaired. I am assuming it was you jpboyt, so if it was, thank you!
We haven't been able to get up to their shop to pick it up yet, but looking forward to trying it out when we do!