So in because my autofill hasn't been working my machine once was on for a while with no water in the boiler. I got to it almost early enough I think because it worked a few days just fine, then I had it unplugged a couple days and now it only heats up to a max of 0.5 bar. At first I thought it might be the pressurestat but it didn't seem to be clunking at the now lower max pressure and I files the contacts with a nail file (the contacts aren't great, but still mostly servicable). In any case, I used a multimeter to determine that juice was indeed getting to the boiler element.

Thus the element became my suspect. I measured resistance between the terminals and it came out 14k ohms (this is bad, right?). I measured terminals to element base and got wandering non-0 values. This element isn't a candidate for the baking fix is it?

So I started the parts hunt. cafeparts has this listed: http://cafeparts.com/productDetail1.asp?ItemID=51103 which appears correct, but to be sure I figured I'd post here. It has the 2 contacts. Mine currently has 4, but there's a part screwed in between them with 2 more contacts that the wiring harness connects with - hopefully the replacement part can handle this part. By the way, what the heck is this thing and what's it's purpose? It doesn't seem to do anything that I can determine (it's La cimbali part number is 531-101-700 for what it's worth).

While we're at it, I need a new gicar box. The cimbali dealership wants $320.00 for it (seems somewhat outrageous for what it is). cafeparts has http://cafeparts.com/productDetail1.asp?ItemID=63741 listed with the correct part number and although it has the correct number of contacts, they aren't in the same orientation mine are in (which is 9 side by side in one row rather than 5 in one row and 4 in another). This one's cheap enough I can stop trying to do board level repairs on my current box. Anyone know if this one will work? My machine's 110-120v while this part lists both the 115 and 230v part numbers, which is somewhat odd (how does it convert both 115 and 230 to 24vdc for the relay coils?).

Hi Darilon,

The box offered by Cafeparts is NOT the one you need. You will need to search for the Gicar number that is printed on the board inside the box: 8.5.00.23.
It is a special one for the Junior D.
The standard RL30 on the Cafeparts site is only for the boiler refill. You will need the one that also regulates the dosing system.

Frank

Why not phone Bravo Coffee in Vancouver, the western Canadian La Cimbali reps and see if they can help you out.

wildbwilson: I have and they have it, but it's $320.00. I have a couple electronics savvy folks I'm hoping will be fixing it for me for a lot less than that, but for the money they wanted for the cafeparts autofill (that is for the 230v version, I suppose) I figured it'd be worth getting the new part.

darilon wrote:... I measured resistance between the terminals and it came out 14k ohms (this is bad, right?). I measured terminals to element base and got wandering non-0 values. This element isn't a candidate for the baking fix is it?

Assuming that you have the two terminal element, it should measure aroud 10 ohms. 14K ohms is not normal. It sounds like you have an intermittent problem as you would never heat to even 0.5 bar if the element was a constant 14K ohm. So a loose connection somewhere. If it is at the terminal, it may be repairable. If it is an internal fault, you need a new element. The elements usually fail open (infinite resistance). Here is a Vancouver supplier that has an aftermarket element under $100. (The newer Cimbali uses this one instead).

If your pressurestat is wired in series with a microswitch like the newer Cimbali's are, it's possible that you may have a bad microswitch rather than the element. Ensure that you disconnect both wires to the element and measure the elements resistance directly. If it still measures 14K ohm, then the element definitely has a problem.

...It has the 2 contacts. Mine currently has 4, but there's a part screwed in between them with 2 more contacts that the wiring harness connects with - hopefully the replacement part can handle this part. By the way, what the heck is this thing and what's it's purpose? It doesn't seem to do anything that I can determine (it's La cimbali part number is 531-101-700 for what it's worth).

That is a thermal circuit breaker (safety thermostat aka hi limit switch) that will interrupt the power path if you have a runaway heating element that overheats.

...While we're at it, I need a new gicar box. The cimbali dealership wants $320.00 for it (seems somewhat outrageous for what it is). cafeparts has http://cafeparts.com/productDetail1.asp?ItemID=63741 listed with the correct part number and although it has the correct number of contacts, they aren't in the same orientation mine are in (which is 9 side by side in one row rather than 5 in one row and 4 in another). This one's cheap enough I can stop trying to do board level repairs on my current box. Anyone know if this one will work? My machine's 110-120v while this part lists both the 115 and 230v part numbers, which is somewhat odd (how does it convert both 115 and 230 to 24vdc for the relay coils?).

Your link is for the 220V D1 Gicar. The 220V (part# 531-691-000) and 120V (part# 531-691-300) versions are different parts. The part pricing structure doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't mean that you can just drop in a different or even similar Gicar box. It's exceedingly unlikely that dropping in the 220V volt part would work in your machine.

You need the identical one or at least someone that could compare the two and *possibly* adapt the 220V part to work in your machine. Not really a solution unless you know someone with a strong electronics background that enjoys a challenge. In practical terms, you will need to find a new Gicar box that is identical or have the current one repaired. You machine may also have two "Gicar boxes" and you should confirm that you need part# 531-691-300 (not #531-506-200).

Thanks for all the info again, wookie. 531-506-200 is just a box with a couple larger relays in it. I'll check the element with wires disconnected tonight, but I would bet I'm buying a new element. Still, for $650 for a used machine, putting a few hundred into getting it into tip top shape while at the same time learning a whole bunch about how it works is a pretty cheap way to get into a good solid machine.

darilon wrote:I measured terminals to element base and got wandering non-0 values.

This might be evidence of an intermittent internal short. But it'd still be worthwhile to double check the element resistance with the terminal wiring disconnected. The element wiring may have 120V on it, so you should unplug the machine before measuring the resistance. Good to know that the other box is just some relays.

If you have spare time, you could try baking the element. It's only a viable fix if the internal insulation is wet, causing an internal short but the submerged portion remains watertight.

You've got the right attitude. It's frustrating that a second part (heating element) has apparently failed. But even so, you still have a bargain price on a very nice machine that would cost about $3,500 new.
.

Ok, just pulled the heating element. Is it EVER dead. The element is split lengthwise for about 30% of it's length with a couple extra holes. The split is caked with scale, although the external surfaces of the element are just fine. I suspect the element has been dead for some time and the previous owner descaled the machine but not enough to expose the split, and eventually the rather acidic water in my neighborhood naturally descaled enough that it exposed the coil inside. How this thing ever worked for as long as it did is completely beyond my understanding. Or possibly it split when it ran out of water and then it's been forming localized scale deposit on the heating coil inside. When I find my camera I'll make a post.

Ok, I uploaded unresized pics of the heating element, so I'll just link to them instead of embedding:

http://brookdalesoftware.com/media/P1020561.JPG
http://brookdalesoftware.com/media/P1020562.JPG

Ugly. So either this element was like this when I got it and eventually died, or it got like this when water ran low one day and then continued to work for about a week and then died. Still somewhat incredible.

Ok, got a new element and new Gicar box. Got a question, however, and Bravo won't be answering me till tomorrow at best, I'd think. The new element has 4 connectors and looks a bit different from my old one (that has 2 connectors for the element itself and 2 for some thing who's name I don't yet know. Pictures (a bit blurry so not quite worth 1000 words, perhaps more like 200ish each):

http://brookdalesoftware.com/media/old.jpg
http://brookdalesoftware.com/media/new.jpg

Note the round thing with 2 connectors in the middle of the old one. I was thinking I might need to splice the hot and connect to two of the connectors on the element on one side, and do the same with the neutral on the other two, ensuring that hot has to go through one of the two elements to get to neutral. The new element appears to have two element circuits on it and thus the 4 posts. Am I on the right track or am I talking crazy talk?

EDIT: Well, I figured I'd put it in place and then when I knew better I'd connect the electrical. Turns out it doesn't even fit. Starting to get frustrated with this whole process. Hope Bravo cross ships the new one. I want espresso by the weekend, damn it.