Thanks mate. I'm gonna keep trying on this.. already tried to steam about 10 pitchers with not a single one adequate.

I'd love to try to adapt those Sproline tips on the Duetto. I'm gonna try to find or make an adapter and give it a shot. Anyone tried this?

I find almost impossible to do not get enough foam from the stock tip; in fact it produces too much. Perhaps you can post a video with your routine too see what's happening.

haunce wrote: I'd love to try to adapt those Sproline tips on the Duetto. I'm gonna try to find or make an adapter and give it a shot. Anyone tried this?

Yes. That's what I use.



Wand is a La Marzocco FB80 with Sproline Knife 1

Did you buy the entire steam wand set, or just the wand itself and install it on the Duetto?

You need only the wand. Fortunately it fits perfect on the Duetto.

Oh, you'll need an anti scorch too.

Nice. Ordered. I'll post some pictures, a video and my thoughts once I get it. I actually purchased the Vortex tip though.

What is the difference between the two tips? I see the directions specify different submersion angles -- is there any reason to pick one over the other?

I've been using a La Spaziale steam wand with four .9 mm holes on my Duetto, and it works great. The no burn wand has a very similar shape and hole layout, but for some reason it was much harder to get good microfoam with it.

I cannot get latte art quality microfoam on this machine, no matter what I try. When you guys say microfoam, you don't mean simply a nice, bubble-less thick layer strictly on top of steamed milk right?

I am trying to make THICK, bubble-less latte-art quality milk all the way through from top to bottom.

I just installed the LM Wand with the Sproline Vortex tip, which fits and works perfectly (I'll post a guide up on how to do this soon) - and I makes the same quality steamed milk as I did with the no burn wand whether its the 2 hole tip or 4 hole tip.

So I've tried:

- No Burn Wand with 2 hole tip and 4 hole tip
- LM Wand with Sproline Vortex tip
- Milk: Whole Milk, 2%, 1%, Skim Milk (different brands even!)
- Pitchers: Rattleware - 20-ounce and 32-ounce
- Milk Quantity: Almost always 4-6 ounces but I've tried 12 ounces in the big pitcher a few times
- Temperature and Pressure: I've tried it from 250-262 Fahrenheit ranging from 1 BAR to 2 BAR
- Technique: Everything I can possibly conceive of

At this point I've easily gone through 4-5 gallons of milk in total using each wand and all three tips. The way I see it - since I've tried to cancel out every possibly variable, the only thing it could be is my technique or the fact that I am at 5000 feet altitude (I've had wonderfully thick steamed milk in my same town but it was on a SPEEDSTER machine), so I know its at least possible.

What I can get, is a half inch thick, bubble-less, glassy top on my steamed milk. But underneath that is just steamed milk. Thicker then un-steamed milk of course, but nothing special. If you pour it over your espresso to make your drink, it is watery with foam at the top on the end. In other words - it sucks.

I'm gonna hopefully get a video of my technique up tonight with a few distinguishable attempts.

Picture of the LM wand with Sproline Vortex tip installed:

I haven't gone thru quite as many steps as you, but close. I've acquired and returned a burn me wand from CCS, I've swapped out the 4 hole for a 2 hole, tried every milk known to man and used 4 different pitchers (Motta, Toroid, etc) varied temps and techniques and basically have ended up at the same frustrating results.

So far, here's what I do know for a fact: this machine is bloody fast. Practice and feeling the bottom of the pitcher in hand is far more accurate as far as immediate feedback than trying to juggle around with a thermometer and trying to watch two different details at the exact same time. Thermometers are way to slow to respond quick enough without overshoot. I do have a very fast Thermopen that would work, but is too awkward to try and hold, since it's not going to sit in the pitcher without me holding the base, which means I can't hold the steam knob and control the flow of steam.

I've read damn near every thread on here and CoffeeGeek, regarding steaming, paying closer attention to our machine, since I don't need to know how easy it is to steam microfoam on a machine I don't own. For the most part, I'm getting better with more and more practice, and using the 2 hole tip. I think the 4 hole tip both jacks up the nice rolling motion of the milk (I could never once get it to roll nicely, only splash about violently) and it only allows it to heat way to quickly. With the 2 hole, I can direct the path of steam in a more linear fashion, with the Motta pitcher held at a 45 degree angle, allowing the two hole to have both holes lying parallel with the rear tilting side of the pitcher. Doing this, I'm able to have a very smooth continuous roll of the milk.

I've never had a problem getting fine foam to top the cap, but never had any 'latex paint' consistency milk suitable for latte art, but I'm getting closer by not stretching as long as I once was. Reading various comments from Anotherjim, and Cannonfodder, etc, describing the nature of the milk needing a brief rest after the stretch, to congeal the proteins around the air bubbles (or whatever mojo is truly happening) allows the milk to thicken up properly in about 15 seconds. I bang the pitcher against the counter, thru a folded up towel for noise suppression and to not beat dings into my pitcher or counter. This knocks out any visible bubbles and a few aggressive swirls helps even out the consistency.

All of this is likely data you've read and tried before, but all I can relate is that I'm equally frustrated by the difficulty in the task, but that it's getting better with time and practice.

Those that wish to reply with irritating comments like " I've never had a problem getting effortless latte art microfoam on mine" can politely piss off It doesn't help anyone struggling, to read that.

For what its worth, I've had near effortless results on high end commercial gear in years gone by working briefly at Starbucks. A big LM steam wand with a massive single hole tip just seems to do it properly. I can walk into any cafe here in SF and watch a barista put a pitcher under a steam wand, and not even look at it, barely bother to hold it at a particular angle, and 8-10 seconds later, tap and bang the pitcher and proceed to pour pure white velvet.

Well that is disheartening to hear. Why is it that other machines are so much easier to use? Doesn't the Duetto have the pressure and power? Does it just suck at steaming, or do we suck? I honestly just don't get it. I can't see how it can be this complicated. Is our technique really that bad? I cannot even fathom what I'm doing incorrectly.. I've tried everything I can think of very, very thoroughly.

I modified the stock wand with the LM wand so it would fit the Sproline Vortex tip, which is suppose to be "idiot proof" to steam perfect microfoam. It only shows a marginal difference. I've already gone through a gallon and a half just with that tip. What technique could I be missing? I do it exactly how it says to do it.