hadriano wrote:My machine work with tank from the moment, and all time I made a double shot.Yes, me too I believe is a little problem with water level, I will try next days to see.I don't want to demote this sensor now, I have machine only from 3 days.....About sensor, see the "mystery" in this photo. A cave inserted in air.And both was same. Not very important

Actually, it does look important, but I don't know the history of your machine or the condition of the wiring in other areas, such as:

• under the tank (where the alarm switch and its wires are),
  on top of the steam boiler (level probe and thermocouple wires),
  on top of the brew boiler (thermocouple wires) or
  behind the drip tray (alarm bypass switch if you have one).

I have no schematic for mine, let alone for yours, so I can only refer to my machine, a Duetto II almost 1 year old. In your photo, I see white and yellow/green wires; on my machine these are the tank-low-water-alarm circuit. As for the thinner black lead, the only place in my Duetto where such appears is in the two pairs of leads between the thermocouple connectors and the PID controller, but in your case the pictured wire could have been used to extend the alarm circuit to a bypass switch. Again, impossible to be sure without more photos and/or history, so consider it food for thought at this point, not a diagnostic.

Is that right?? I would think that Italy above all places on earth would have good espresso on every corner!

In every corner NO.In general is ok, but exceptional espresso maybe in 5%.
About my photo, sorry for my english, the problems was with black cables, because the clamps not was proper fixed, not pressed.ONLY a hand node....I speak about cables from magnetic sensor.
In this morning I bought a new coffee, mexico .http://www.torrefazioneparenti.com/ita/default.asp ,version gmp.
Again, in this morning I try to do latte, I purged 300 ml of water, but my technique is not ok.I will learn
To not be understand wrong, I.m happy with my alex, is a big jump from my gaggia pure, BUT..now I understand why all experts indicate not espresso machine is more important.And another aspect, is maybe will be necessary to educate my taste.

I made the modification.I lift the sensor same in photos.I hope to be ok, because I'm not very sure how function this sensor .
I saw was necessary to purge 1 liter before the pump start to refill the boiler.Is more, is less, I dont know.
another strange phenomenon is the alarm sound from 20 sec, without any apparent reason.The tank is full, all appear ok, and time to time the alarm noise is present.Is only max 20 sec and after silence...

danetrainer wrote: The long delay before you see "droplets" from the group screen is an indication of "overextraction" and you will need to adjust the grinder more coarse "gros".

I think that is only part of the issue. My guess is that hadriano is noticing the delay due to the built in pre-infusion of the E61. More than 10 seconds is typical from turning the pump on until the first drops appear on machines with E61 groups. Having owned a Gaggia myself it is quite different, but the longer delay is normal. The grind may only be a bit too tight but I would judge that by the rest of the pour and not just the dwell time.

I come back.
I saw this article from Chris Coffee
"How to properly replace a liquid level sensor probe."
"...important is how much of the probe is inserted into the boiler. If it is not enough your boiler will be too full which will result in two things. Very wet steam and not much of it. If it is too low you can burn out your heater"
IN conclusion, I made the wrong movement, this I understand me.IS NECESSARY TO PUT DOWN THE SENSOR, NOT UP"
What is not clear from me, is where is the BOILER nut?In my preview photos is clear the first hexagon is welded from boiler, is not a nut.I'm wrong?
From the moment I dont have another problems, only this with wet and watery steam

Your boiler looks different than mine. But the basics are the same.

I had the same problem. The uppermost nut that the probe passes thru can be loosened, then the probe inserted deeper into the boiler. I did the change about 3 months ago, after not being able to get drier steam any other way.

To be completely honest, I'm not certain (at least on my newer machine) that you can insert it too far. Between the nut, and the slight curvature of the probe, you can't slide it down till it "hubs" anyway.

I remember when I did do this, I was only able to slide it in an additional 1/4" max, compared to where it was stock from the factory. This plus increasing my steam boiler temp seemed to help a good deal. No more sputtering water during the process, and it seems a great deal drier altogether.

Thanks from your response.
I have a few remarks.If you see the photo from chris with this level sensor, the probe is not bend.I believe,
depend of every boiler size, heater element, ecc, position( vertical or horizontal) the distance from sensor probe to top of the boiler is different.This is clear.This distance is possible to be adjusted how we know, not
difficult,with a little push more far inside of boiler.If mine is a limited by
bend, means the bend is not correct.Is a little philosophy, I know, BUT, here is a delicate aspect,in my
opinion.BECAUSE, how I read in coffeegeek, when you purge water, steam boiler heater ON, the pump start to refill the boiler with a delay of 14 sec.MORE.If the level of water is ok from steam, in my situation
without 0.5 liter of water( I purge this to be ok from steam), is possible when you purge water or steam, the
heater remain without water, because the pomp start with more delay.And more seconds without water from heater means quickly dead, possible not immediately but in short time.From me to make a good adjustment is nice to see the height of heater in boiler,to know the minimum level of water, to calculate the deep distance from sensor, and in final to be 100% sure in any situation the heater remain in water.But all this I believed was made by engineer of Izzo, and know I'm not very sure about this.Actual setting sacrifice the good steam from safety.STOP
ok, what temperature you use from steam boiler to dry the steam?

I had it set at 260-261 at various times. It's been mostly off since Mid November since I've grown to dislike using the almond milk I had been making from scratch. It masked too many subtlties in the drink. Unless I was pulling shots on something that was a simple chocolate, nutty bomb, anything else just tastes like mild coffee flavored almond milk.

I might go back to whole milk, but that's another topic.

I don't know if it would help your situation as far as visualization, but if you like, I could snap a picture of the steam boiler temp probes location now. I know I found one either on their PDF manual, or on CCS website, showing the stock location. Mine is just shy of 1/4" further in than that, right at the hub of the bend in the probe.

TomC wrote:Your boiler looks different than mine. But the basics are the same.

I had the same problem. The uppermost nut that the probe passes thru can be loosened, then the probe inserted deeper into the boiler. I did the change about 3 months ago, after not being able to get drier steam any other way.

To be completely honest, I'm not certain (at least on my newer machine) that you can insert it too far. Between the nut, and the slight curvature of the probe, you can't slide it down till it "hubs" anyway.

I remember when I did do this, I was only able to slide it in an additional 1/4" max, compared to where it was stock from the factory. This plus increasing my steam boiler temp seemed to help a good deal. No more sputtering water during the process, and it seems a great deal drier altogether.

I also found lowering (and making sure the steam wand tip was cleaned) appeared to help make steam drier. My tank element was 2.9" below the bottom of the tank threads. I lowered the water sensor tip to ~0.15+" above the element. You do not want the element exposed to the air, obviously but in my case lowering the tip seemed to make the steam drier. Also I ran through the calculations and measurements of volume and the % of water at shut off level on the sensor when lowered. My calculations after measuring the auto fill level vs tank volume in my tank show at the lowered level ~59-67% water after filling. The water in mine stopped ~0.45" above the tip on refill. You will see where the high water level is on the tip from residue on the probe. This is a function of the Gicar and timing delays so that the machine is not constantly cycling. When the tip is no longer conducting or in contact with water, it refills. According to my discussions with a manufacturer of high end commercial machines this is right in the lower middle % of what they target. Apparently when you get too dry steam you don't transfer heat to the milk, and when too wet you get lots of heat but less microfoam.....
Best to do if in doubt about levels is remove the sensor (large nut and sensor), probe the depth of the element tip. Wood chopstick works well. The element tip is offset from the hole since my sensor is not in the middle of the tank. Make sure the tip is above the element level, the tip is clean and you are safe in how much you lowered it.....All US duettos should have the same tank/element design, but these are Italian, after all.
It is a great machine once you get to know it and get though the "teething" whether the teething is your learning, or a bit of tweaking of the Italian build. The wiring picture above is a bit odd and should be explored.
.

Chris Coffee has been a tremendous resource for those US customers.
Cheers

ok
I understand what you explain..is logical.
From me apear strange yours initial position 2.9" the bottom of the tank threads.
BUT, to have a clear image about heat element, what code, how we identify this element?
I ask because if I try to search in the sites of companys who sell element from coffee machines,
same nuovoricambi, caffericambi, the Izzo not appear.I belive is one of another element used by
on of famous manufacturers.And is available from all parts from alex duetto.
From the moment my technique when I made latte is to purge from water tube 0.5 liters of water,
and after I have a good steam.MY questions is, IF i purge continuously water, the heater element not remain
in air?If gigar comand the refill with a delay....is possible the element remain 10 seconds on and WITHOUT WATER.
This I understand me...