Hello, sorry if this question has already been asked. I am new to this site but for the short time I have been visiting I have learned a lot. But my ? is I have a plumbed in Giotto using reverse osmosis and I have read that on some e61 machines the water is too pure and therefore the boiler will over fill. Is this the case with my machine? Any help would be greatly appreciated

You have it set up that way and it is working? If so, I have to assume that your RO system is not delivering pure RO water to the machine. I do believe that the machine has a water level sensor that works as all other such machines do, by passing a small electrical current through the water which the electronics sense and shut off the boiler fill function. Because the boiler is not overfilling I have to believe that there is some mineral content in the water. But worse than that, RO water will leach copper. That is why when an RO system is installed they recommend switching to a plastic line to the fridge to avoid leaks.

There are inline filter that can be added to put minerals back into the water which would take care of this as well as improve the taste of the espresso, or you can add a mixing valve to put a little tap water back into the feed line for the espresso machine. You may also want to check into a water test kit (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH+KH kit using the liquid test is excellent and affordable). There are also TDS meters that can be plumbed directly into the RO system to read before and after treatment levels to assure that the system is operating properly.

Agree in FULL with Randy...

There are items marketed as RO systems and then there is True RO systems and then there is all the ancillary extras that should be fitted to manage the mineral and electrolyte content to ensure the water is fit for human consumption.

A true RO system is very wastefully of water as a high % ( between 45% and 55 %) is just out to waste and due to the RO membranes and filtering, the waste will be high in mineral and other content. If you're on a wet dialysis system, you would be well aware of the need to keep the filters and the system running to get it as pure as possible. WHY; because pure water is hungry and wants the minerals back. Thus your blood is passed via one side of the dialysis system and the pure water on the other. The system filters then allow the osmosis effect to LEACH out all the excess minerals etc and to restore a balance to the body.

Thus if you use true RO water in any system; it's first reaction is to attain a balance and will leach from all the materials it comes into contact with, be that copper / brass and even after going through the coffee grinds; it will leach what it can from your body if it needs too (and the coffee tastes flat). Thus leading to an imbalance in your system.. True de mineralised water is NOT FIT for human consumption with out being treated and having minerals and electrolyte added back into the system. Let alone, if it is to also act an electrical return path as used in some level sense ccts.

Buy some true de mineralised water from a shop and read the warnings..

Thus after spending $ for a TRUE RO system, you then need some good ongoing test equipment to monitor and extra filters to re mineralise OR as stated previously - re mix with a volume of untreated water to get back to a balance. If your trying to kill bugs or manage other unwanted stuff, the by re adding you are in effect breaching your intent...

A filter to remove particulate and another to manage scale is all that is really required. Other wise it is a massive over kill and lots of extra effort for a cup of espresso. Then other than the placebo effect (having paid big $) 99.9% of people would never be able to even tell the difference in the cup. If you add milk, then the type of milk will have a bigger impact on the final outcome and the impact of all that effort is just a perception.

Fit for purpose ! The need is about managing scale build up in the machine; so look at systems that do that cost effectively; rather than one of emotions and marketing.

I am happy with a two stage system that cost little to install and replace 2 filters every 6 months and not worth monitoring. A RO system will cost a lot more than $160 and then to monitor and keep the system in tip top condition will be an ongoing expense. Ask any Dialysis technician or look at the costs of providing quality water to a dialysis patient, it is expensive and requires vigilance. Mind you when you understand the outcome, a life Vs a cup of Jo, then the costs in one application is worth every cent...

well, your boiler might overfill. Depends on accumulated minerals that are already there, if you don't flush the boiler often.

But you would also have another problem. The Rocket detect low level water using an electrical contact as well. It's the metal rod sticking out of the receptacle in the machine where to tank connects.

If your water was true RO, you would probably get false low level warnings (pump and heater stop and the green light flashes).

Since it does not seem to be the case, i would agree with others that your water has mineral content. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but you will need to test the water going to your machine. It takes very little mineral content for the tank low level sensor and boiler water level sensor to work.

Test using hardness strips or an aquarium kit with liquid indicators. Search this site for hardness discussions and see if you really need to change anything.

Thank you VERY much for the quick replies.Well I had it plumbed in via a 5 gallon/ Brita filter water method. And today I had the R.O. system installed for my tap water and he said if I wanted to it would cost nothing to hook it up to the Giotto. So I thought why not? Then decided to do a little research and found out about the possibility of the boiler over filling So went back to the 5 gallon method till I figure out what would be out the best course of action.

To Spiffdude. Is your machine plumbed in? And if so would you mind sharing you method? If possible, maybe pictures?

Is reverse osmosis water bad for my Giotto Evoluzione

Maybe not, as it depends upon the total system you have installed. I did a "Google" on "reverse osmosis system" and just clicked on the first site that showed up. This happens to be one of the systems that this seller offers which also displays a typical kitchen sink tap:

http://www.reverseosmosis.com/products/ ... ystem.html

As Randy suggested, it would be VERY prudent to run some simple tests on your water before and after the system. Here would be my favs as regards products: http://www.mcmaster.com/#water-test-strips/=h9nj6n . P/N 11235T41 for hardness and/or P/N 11235T47 for "everything under the sun".

Courtenay - How about providing some info and pics on your currently installed system? A link?

I documented what I did:
part 1 - and - part 2

The R.O. system is from Culligan, I tried to post pictures but I had troubles. I only had it hooked up to the R.O. for maybe three shots? Then went back to the 5 gallon/ Brita method

Hi Courtenay,

Mine is plumbed using water softener and carbon cartridges like the ones sold at Chris Coffee. Water softener, then carbon filter then pressure regulator then espresso machine. I tee'd of the cold water line to the kitchen faucet. Don't have pictures yet.

Before that, i was using RO water bought from a dispenser at the store and mixed with enough tap water to bring up the mineral level a bit. I used this for two years with minimal scale build up.