Hi Mark,

you know how you want to make something fit and in the end you're left with something that's too small? that's exactly what happened here, because instead of doing it slow I rushed and managed to screw it up a bit.

I've used some thin copper wire to hold the whole thing in place and stitch it in some places.

Will post some photos tomorrow.

Regards,
dsc.

dsc wrote:Hi Mark,

you know how you want to make something fit and in the end you're left with something that's too small? that's exactly what happened here, because instead of doing it slow I rushed and managed to screw it up a bit.

I sure know how that goes... Now that you've used this kind of insulation, you can see why it's so nice to work with compared to say fiberglass.

dsc wrote: I've used some thin copper wire to hold the whole thing in place and stitch it in some places.

Looking forward to seeing another Elektra in daily use.

BTW: Be sure the bare wire doesn't contact the level probe or heater safety switch. I used insulated wires just in case they ever broke/moved/jostled and touched anything live.

What I thought was pretty nifty about the insulation is that I could put my hand on the insulation on the end of a hot boiler and while it was warm it wasn't as if I was placing it on the bare copper.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Now that you've used this kind of insulation, you can see why it's so nice to work with compared to say fiberglass.

I thought about that when working around the corners and trying to fit the damn sheet inside the machine. I can't imagine working with fibreglass, expecially without the proper equipment.

I've took care to place the wires so that they don't touch anything except the foam. I still have to add two wires in the middle of the boiler to hold the middle part of the foam around the bottom of the HX, but other than that it all sits nicely. I might stitch the round piece around the heater, because at the moment it's simply squized into place, although it looks like it's not willing to fall out.

I'm really curious how good it's going to work as I was amazed to see the boiler still quite hot even after few hours from the moment I turned it off.

Anyone thought of using thin pipe foam insulation sleeves on some of the pipes in the machine?

Regards,
dsc.

Anyone thought of using thin pipe foam insulation sleeves on some of the pipes in the machine?

Regards,
dsc.

Hi Tom,

I have a feeling that if you did this it may affect the thermosiphon effect used to regulate the group head temp. It may even effect your brew temps as there would be less heat loss, which i assume would have been taken into account in the machines original design.

Regards
Eric

Hi Eric,

I agree it might have a negative effect on the machine and will probably prolong the cooling flush. I will leave it for now and try out the boiler insulation only.

Regards,
dsc.

PS. Eric, you're back from your holiday?

Tom / Mark:

I'd be curious to know how much heat reduction you guys appreciate post-insulation. Silly me I suppose but somehow I had it in my mind that there would be no or minimal heat radiating from my A3 after the insulation "task". The sides of my machine are clearly cooler to the touch but not cold by any stretch of the word. In fact, the front end of my top warming tray is still rather, well... hot, probably due to heat gathered from the group head. (Admittedly though, I'm a leave it on 24/7 guy so I incur more heat than those who shut their machines down in between sessions)

Part of my problem when I insulated mine was getting the wires I used to secure the insulation to feed around the boiler, pipes, electrical wires etc. without hanging up (in the insulating material and so forth) as there is not a lot of "elbow room" in/around/under the boiler. I wondered about using heat resistant cable ties but at the time didn't have any long enough, so I made use of some stainless wire my wife had laying around from a prior craft project of some sort...

Last, I used six or seven wires on mine, rather than the 4 or so that seem to be popular. By using more, I was able to get the insulation to lay smoother and not "bunch up" quite so much in spots (typically around my cut-outs). I figured as long as the wires were not touching any piping or electrical wires, what would it matter?

Hi guys,

here are some photos of the finished job:





and the screwed up bottom part:



k7qz - hopefully I will be able to check how it works during the weekend, but I know that Mark is rather happy with his insulation.

Regards,
dsc.

k7qz wrote:Tom / Mark:
I'd be curious to know how much heat reduction you guys appreciate post-insulation.

About the best method I could think of for doing this would be to monitor the power needed by the system and compare against a system with a similar setup but without insulation. After all, all the power is going into heat. I had originally planned to measure my system without insulation and then later with insulation, but got lazy.

I happen to have my system on a KillaWatt power meter (about $20). Anyone with a non-insulated T1/A3 also have a meter?

Mark

Tom:

Ahh, I see what you did. You used wire to stitch the side cap to the body of insulation. I ran a couple more wires around each of the ends to snug these pieces down against each other. Net gain of zero as the same goal was accomplished. I had the opposite problem on the bottom part of mine. I cut mine a little too long but it actually worked out OK. (Murphy's Law of Construction: Cut it too big and kick it in to place... ) I also used different items as templates for my cutouts (a nickel, a quarter and the plastic cap from a gallon milk jug). What I noticed was that as I wrapped the insulation around the boiler that the cut out holes would stretch some so my insulation "fit" around the tubing didn't come out as clean as yours. I'd suggest that future insulators use templates that are just slightly smaller than the copper caps you're allowing for. Then when you wrap the insulation around your boiler, you can gently press the insulation snugly in to place around these joints for a nice neat fit. I also used kitchen scissors to cut out my insulation with. I wonder if an Exacto or hobby knife would cut this stuff more cleanly?

Mark:

I wasn't nearly as scientific as you with a power meter. I simply placed my hand on the top tray pre-insulation (Ouwww, that's hot!) and again post-insulation (Hmmm, not nearly as hot but still a little warmer than I thought it would be). I have noticed the boiler is not cycling as much post-insulation but again, just another subjective observation...

Hi all,

Note that this is an older 60's series sibling to the A3 -- it was manufactured in 1979. The main differences are the lack of a port for a vacuum breaker, a screw-in heater element instead of a bolt-on one, and a timer controlling the length of shot instead of a flow-meter and computer.

I looked at the various options mentioned in the thread More on boiler insulation, and got to thinking -- Fiberglass insulation is cheap and can handle the heat, but the problem is keeping it contained. I found some reflective mylar covered fiberglass heat duct insulation at Home Depot for around $7 for a 5 foot length (much more than I would need) and thought that this would work well. The fiberglass would be in direct contact with the boiler, and the outer reflective mylar covering would take the heat on the outside of the fiberglass.

I had the boiler out of the machine to replace the heater element and to descale it (full immersion), so fitting it was a lot easier than trying to do it in place. Wearing disposable gloves, I cut a chunk of the fiberglass long enough to wrap the boiler and cover the ends, and got to fitting it to the boiler, cutting out holes for the fittings as I went, and then trimming to fit. I used foil backed duct tape to hold the outside of the fiberglass together (not in direct contact with the boiler).

Then I did the same with the outer mylar covering. It took about an hour to do it, and didn't cost much, and has the heightest R value of the various options mentioned in the thread mentioned above. I made sure to cut back the mylar cover to keep it well away from where the heating element comes through so that it could not short out the electrical contacts (I don't think it's conductive -- but just to be safe). I think this will work fine. One other thing I did is to cut some slits in the bottom of the mylar covering so that if water gets inside due to a leak or the pressure-relief valve opening up, it will drain instead of getting trapped in the fiberglass insulation.

The boiler is doesn't heat up the room anymore -- and the cup warmer is now warm only over the boiler -- not hot at all. The heater cycles much less than before as well.

Here are some pics showing the boiler installed and insulated: