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The Impact of Autofill on Shot Temperature and Pressure in an HX Machine - Page 3

Postby 'Q' on Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:27 pm

Trying to come up with an answer that is easily explained on here is tough.

Basically, assuming that the existing pressure in the tank is the result of steam (which is water in another form) and not compressed air, the introduction of more water will not alter the functioning of the boiler.

Three things to consider:
1) Increasing the temperature of the water will cause it to evaporate and produce steam which will increase pressure in the tank.

2) Increasing pressure in the tank results in a higher required temperature for water to evaporate and produce more steam. Also, the temperature which the steam will condense back to water goes up (called the dew point).

3) Lowering temperature will result in condensation of the steam back into water, which will lower the pressure in the tank.


By introducing more water into the tank, you will increase pressure (and lower the temp a little). Increasing the pressure will raise the evaporative point of the water, not allowing more steam to be produced unless the water increases in temperature (not going to happen if the pressurestat is doing its job) and raising the point that the steam will condense back to water. This will effectively balance things back out so that the pressure regulation performed by the pressurestat will maintain the desired temperature.

Hope this makes sense.
'Q'
 
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Postby Jetsteam on Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:33 pm

jesawdy wrote:Ken et al.

Finally got a chance to read this thread.... and I looked at the plumbing diagram and electrical diagram for the M32 Bistro (which is not the M21 Junior, but hey, it is Cimbali). I am not an expert in reading said diagrams, but I believe on the M32 at least, it is electrically wired such that the Coffee solenoid and the Boiler supply solenoid cannot be active simultaneously. My suspicion is that the level sensor is detecting low level, LED indicates that boiler refill is needed, but not necessarily occuring. The wiring diagram indicates that pump motor relay is tied to the coffee solenoid and the boiler supply solenoid, but there is a switch that limits it to one or the other.

Ken, if you are so inclined, you could put a meter on the boiler supply solenoid, and see if it is actually opening intrashot or not when a refill occurs. I think it is actually opening immediately upon completion of the shot when the boiler level sensor is calling for refill.

I can attempt to post the electrical diagrams if you'd like.

The hydraulic diagram also shows an "Injector" on both the Coffee plumbing circuit ahead of the heat exchanger, and on the boiler supply plumbing ahead of the Boiler supply solenoid valve. There is a third "Injector" ahead of the water supply tank solenoid valve as well (The M32 1-group has a pour over type reservoir, even though it can be direct plumbed). I am not sure what is meant by an "injector", but based on the three locataions, I wonder if they are some sort of flow restrictor or orifice. Is this consistent with a gicleur (I'm too lazy to look right now)?

UPDATE - For this one, it is simpler to link to a PDF of the diagrams that I created. Get a copy of the electrical and plumbing diagram here.

-Jeff


After viewing the schematic you posted, i have to agree that the control will not allow the boiler to fill while the brew group solenoid is open.
Infiintely spiraling towards a more perfect shot!
Jetsteam
 
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Location: indiana

Postby kanacubancoffee on Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:32 pm

Jeff,

I am trying to find electrical drawings for the M32. The link at the bottom of the post does not work. Do you know where I can find schematics?
kanacubancoffee
 
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