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I still don't get it: Why adjust the OPV?

Postby buzzmc on Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:41 pm

This is stemming from folks helping me "set up" my Andreja Premium some time back, and me getting a new VBM DoubleDomo a few days ago... I still need to go back and find that thread about dialing in a new machine as I think it's pretty helpful... I digress...

I don't believe I ever understood why I needed to do that, and now the new VBM will show pressures up in the 12's (which I know is too high), but I can adjust grind/tamp to get that to read closer to 9, which is what I think I should be aiming for... If I set that OPV to open(?) at 9.5, then I won't really know if my grind/tamp is off unless I time the shots, ya?
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Postby another_jim on Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:20 pm

You can adjust your grind and tamp to pull a 9 to 10 bar double; but for singles and ristrettos, you can't. The Italian spec for vibe pumps is to set it to 11 bar on a blind filter. If you can see the pressure during a shot, adjust it while pulling a single or ristretto, so you get 9 to 10 bar.
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Postby HB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:42 pm

buzzmc wrote:I don't believe I ever understood why I needed to do that...

The OPV serves the same purpose as the bypass valve of a rotary pump: To set the maximum brew pressure. Rotary pumps are capable of moving significantly more volume at espresso brewing pressure than a vibe pump. In the case of a rotary pump, the bypass valve allows water to flow from the outlet side to the inlet side; in the case of a vibe pump, the over-pressure valve allows water to escape to the reservoir, effectively reducing the maximum pressure because of the flow rate / pressure relationship:

Image
From Flow rate of a rotary pump espresso machine

If you do some calculations to determine the flow rate / pressure intersection for the vibe pump (left curves), you'll find that it conveniently works out to around 9 bar -- if you're pulling doubles. As Jim notes, an OPV acts as a "safe release" for ristrettos where the pressure would otherwise rise to 10+ bar given the slower flow.

For even more details, see purpose of adjusting OPV?
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Postby HB on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:13 am

buzzmc wrote:If I set that OPV to open(?) at 9.5, then I won't really know if my grind/tamp is off unless I time the shots, ya?

Back to your original question, adjusting the over-pressure valve (vibratory pumps) or bypass valve (rotary pumps) to deliver a known maximum pressure just makes life less complicated, even if technically in the case of the vibe pump you could finagle the grind to deliver reasonable espresso brew pressures.

For sake of completeness, not all high-end pump espresso machines have brew pressure adjustment mechanisms. Consider the Elektra Semiautomatica; it has a vibe pump and no OPV. I measured its pressure output with a Scace II (thermofilter + pressure gauge). It's a very reasonable 9.1 bar, underscoring what Jim concluded in his review, i.e., when it comes to double espressos, the Semiautomatica demonstrates that it doesn't need an OPV.
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Postby buzzmc on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:32 pm

HB wrote:For sake of completeness, not all high-end pump espresso machines have brew pressure adjustment mechanisms. Consider the Elektra Semiautomatica; it has a vibe pump and no OPV. I measured its pressure output with a Scace II (thermofilter + pressure gauge). It's a very reasonable 9.1 bar, underscoring what Jim concluded in his review, i.e., when it comes to double espressos, the Semiautomatica demonstrates that it doesn't need an OPV.


Hmm...If I am following this correctly, then the 9bar setting is more important than achieving that through grind/tamp, to the point that a 35 or 40 second extraction @9bar is reasonably acceptable... In which case you're now just trying to get your grind/tamp to come close to that 25-30 second extraction mark.

:?:
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Postby HB on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:40 pm

buzzmc wrote:If I am following this correctly, then the 9bar setting is more important than achieving that through grind/tamp... you're now just trying to get your grind/tamp to come close to that 25-30 second extraction mark.

Exact-o-mondo.
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Postby buzzmc on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:43 pm

Well then, until I get somehow ultra interested in understanding all of this in detail, I'll take this for what it is, and make my life easier.

Then, seemingly if I figure out if I'm overdosing or not, I'll be in pretty darn good shape with the new machine.

Thx!
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Postby HB on Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:16 pm

To close on this subject...

In a nutshell, the over-pressure valve on a vibratory pump espresso machine's raison d'être is the elimination of maximum brew pressure variance due to the flow rate. Twiddling with the grind to produce the desired pressure doesn't really make sense and is physically impossible for espresso machines equipped with rotary pumps.

That said, you can adjust the maximum brew pressure to produce different flavor and texture profiles. Most recommend around 9 bar, but I've set the brew pressure as low as 7.5 with good results, depending on the blend. And then there are those who methodically manipulate the brew pressure within an extraction, such as Greg's Experiments in programmable, variable brew pressure profiling, part 2, and part 3.
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Postby buzzmc on Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:38 pm

We'll always need folks like Greg around, but that's definitely not my intent, nor will I probably ever possess that much intelligence on this subject.

I did set the OPV to about 9.6, and I'll probably take the cover off again and lower it a tad more... I got a bit impatient.

Now I'll be off to see if people have devised ways to quiet their machines down.. I'm sure they have... This one's decent, but more 'vibratory' than the Andreja.. If there's a nifty way to isolate a bit of that it'd be nice... Since my espresso cups need to be held down so they don't slide away ;)
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Postby HB on Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:06 pm

buzzmc wrote:If there's a nifty way to isolate a bit of that it'd be nice... Since my espresso cups need to be held down so they don't slide away ;)

Yes, there's several threads on the subject, e.g., Eliminating noise from vibration (excerpted below) and Vibiemme Domobar Decibel Level.

cafeIKE wrote:I added this to the top of of the Vibiemme to stop the rattle of the cups and top cover.
It has little 'feet' to raise the mat above the cover so ventilation is not impeded.
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It's an InterDesign SinkWorks small clear sink protector.
Available at Bed Bath & Beyond, Linens n Things and sundry other kitchen retailers.
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