I love the picture - Industral strength always appeals to me! hehehe


OK You guys are keeping me honest.

Due to fear, I was strongly considering getting a cheap consumer machine to last me while I continue the research. But the wisdom of experience rings true. I've found a buyer for the Solis Grinder.

The WLL Expobar/Mazzer combo for $1,070 is lookin' real good.

However, the mini looks toooo big for my kitchen, Plus the doser on there really isn't necessary. I think I'd spend more time cleaning out old grounds than pulling shots.

Is there a doserless grinder you'd recommend?

Steve

steves wrote:However, the mini looks toooo big for my kitchen, Plus the doser on there really isn't necessary. I think I'd spend more time cleaning out old grounds than pulling shots.

Is there a doserless grinder you'd recommend?

Steve

Doserless to doser and back again... the debate continues captures the latest round of opinions on this point. The Mini E and Rocky Doserless are the two high-end doserless grinders I've used. I prefer stepless grinders and have come to prefer dosers over the years because of the reduced clumping the extra thwacking brings. If size is a strong consideration, then Rocky plus a few uber mods will set you up for a long, long time.

BTW, if you need backup arguments on some of these purchases, add this to the mix: The resale on the high-end stuff is very good, especially durables like grinders. I sold my Rocky grinder for 25% of the original retail price. Later I found out the same guy resold it to a friend almost two years later for the same price (of course the exchange rate helped).

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Cannonfodder, you were a much quicker study than me. Took almost 3 years to have my espresso epiphany. Oh was pulling decent, sometimes great shots, but just didn't really "get" espresso even though it was my primary brewing method. Pulled shots for primarily Americanos until one day this ristretto talked to me, and kept talking to me for almost an hour. The most fantastic linger... 'early '05 was the real beginning of my espresso journey not when I got Miss Silvia in '02.
(snip)

But you give me more credit than I am due. An epiphany is defined as a sudden realization, a sudden intuitive leap of understanding, especially through an ordinary but striking occurrence (Microsoft Office 2003 dictionary). I by no means have mastered the art, I am at best mediocre but continually striving for consistency. Notice the word consistency, not perfection; does any pro Barista consider their work to be perfect? There is always room for innovation and improvement.

I am referring to that one magical moment in time when everything comes together and you are rewarded with a sublime shot. Then you realize how good it can be and that you can make a darn good espresso. Then you redouble your efforts and strive to consistently obtain that mark.

The Mazzer is not really all that tall. I have the Mini "P" which has the shorter hopper on the top. It will fit under you average height kitchen counter. The original Mini will not. There is something like a 3" height difference in the hopper. Many leave the hopper off and simply spoon in the appropriate amount of bean for their drink. I keep about two days worth in the hopper. A 58mm tamper will cover the grinder throat perfectly. When I am playing with a new blend, I leave the hopper off and cap it with my old tamper.

I can not speak for the Rocky, I have never owned one, but I know it is well regarded and a capable machine. My Gaggia MDF will actually produce a good grind and acceptable shot, but the Mazzer is in another class, and unfortunately price range.

I have learned to pay attention to the wisdom of the more experienced members here at HB. If they suggest against something, I would take them at their word, same hold true for suggestions in favor of something.

Don't forget the accessories with your purchase. Get a good tamper, a frothing pitcher or two, a blank basket if it does not include one and some back flushing detergent (I like JoeGlo) and a few appropriately sized cups for the drinks you plan on making.

Cannonfodder,

I am taking the advice very seriously. The WLL package deal looks really good. I'd just buy the recommended Expobar Pulser right now. However, the package with the Mazzer mini is sweet (saves about $200).

Then again I'm worried about spending $1,000 on something that's gonna make kitchen mess everyday and serve yesterday's grounds. Or is that unfounded?


Steve

Most of the HB sponsors offer combo deals on machines and grinders. I would toss out a few but don't want to overlook anyone. Dan (HB) could list them all. In many cases, if you call you may get a better deal than they offer on the web (FYI, WLL does not support HB).

steves wrote:Then again I'm worried about spending $1,000 on something that's gonna make kitchen mess everyday and serve yesterday's grounds. Or is that unfounded?

Yes and no. All grinders make a mess, it's only a matter of how much. Teme's espresso passione blog documents Mazzer Mini modifications that will increase its sweep efficiency very effectively (see the My Mazzer Mini dropdown on the right). Add a small brush and in a few seconds the doser is free of yesterday's grinds. The metal "acid brushes" below are cheap and work perfectly for sweeping the excess from the chute.


Wait for the grinder to stop before sweeping the chute!

PS: Dave, no worries about who is or isn't a sponsor. Todd Salzman at Whole Latte Love is a great guy and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him.

My Mini has no hopper on it, I use my tamper in the throat to hold the beans down. Some say that you get the popcorn effect that way, and others say it doesn't matter much. I'm not convinced either way yet. I weigh and grind per shot. When I'm done pulling shots I brush the inside of the throat, then the chute, then kick the grinder on for a few seconds, and then wait for it to completely stop spinning, then brush the chute out again, then brush the doser. I don't vacuum the grinder each day, but I'm fairly certain I get most of the grinds out. It really doesn't take that long. I haven't done any of the doser mods yet, and am not sure I will. If you are not in a hurry to get your setup, keep your eyes open. There have been rumors of a home espresso machine demo where some of us may bring in our machines and compare. We did something similar at a home roaster meeting a few months ago over at Barefoot.

It really is not that messy. As with anything, you have to clean up after yourself, but it is by no means overly messy. I wipe the froth wand off, run some water out the group to rinse off loose grounds and give it a quick wipe with the damp towel. One swipe across my work area with the dish towel and it is clean. Then I do a once a week backflush and wipe down of the equipment to keep it nice and shiny. About 20 minutes of leisure work on a Saturday morning at most.

I would think a doserless grinder would produce more displaced grounds than a doser would. I use a mushroom brush to clean my MM hopper, doser and chute. It is made for brushing dirt off mushrooms. Moderately stiff bristles (much softer than acid brushes I have used) and the best part, it is wood. Just in case I stick it in the machine before the burrs have spun down. I am less worried about wood contacting the burrs. After all, coffee is just a woody seed that has undergone a controlled burn. The bristle tuft is a little longer and much thicker as well. I also had one in the kitchen cabinet when my Mazzer arrived, so that is what I used.

I do not have first hand experience with the Expobar, but Worldman (Len) has one. He invited me to his home while I was in Pittsburgh on business and made several drinks from it. Seemed like a nice machine and a smaller footprint which is important if you are short on space. I also looked for a machine that got a 'Looks nice' from the wife. It is much easier if the significant other likes the appearance. She accepted its presence in the kitchen with much less effort from me.

I have no issues with Whole Latte Love, in fact, my Isomac and Gaggia came from them. I got my grinder from Chris Coffee. Just a plug for the folks that pay to support HB.

Whatever you final decision, a good peace of equipment that is properly maintained should last for years.

Many fears allayed!

Wow Teme's Blog is excellent. Really answered a ton of questions. Looks like the WLL package is unbeatable.

Fear has given way to confidence.

Confidence needs only be converted to cash and we're all set.

Thanks for NOT letting me go down the cheapie path. It almost happened on a couple of occasions.

Steve